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>The real answer is that we don't yet know enough about how the brain works to work effectively on this problem. If we imagine there's a God and I could ask an

>The real answer is that we don't yet know enough about how the brain works to work effectively on this problem. If we imagine there's a God and I could ask any 1 question about the brain and get an anaswer, all I would need to ask is: "Hey God: w.r.t. the human brain, are there any special shenanigans like is connected to a soul that's responsible for consciousness, or is it WYSIWYG, just a bunch of cells and that's it?" Luckily for you, there is no God and I can answer definitively: no, there are no shenanigans. It's just some cells and that's it. I am telling you this definitively. There are no metaphysical shenanigans going on in the human brain. Note: you might wonder why, for this answer, I decided to phrase it in terms of asking God. The answer is in order to activate the natural scientist's reaction "that's silly, God can't tell you there's no God like that". Well, brain metaphysics is exactly and equally silly. It's just some cells, that's all.

baggy_trough 7y ago
You can't really say that definitively. It is just a philosophical belief.
- goldenkey 7y ago
  Its also the kettle calling itself black. The kettle, the calling, the self, that's all G..Nature..Universe, whatever you wanna call it. You cannot be sure you are anything in this universe. Even a sentence like "I think therefore I am" requires short term memory. The universe could have just created you at this very moment. Its all subject to corruption, subterfuge, and undecidability. Big woop, you find out that the brain is connecting to your thinking, that still doesn't explain why you, why the universe, why the brain, and why the thinking.
  - thrwwya3947 7y ago
    >The universe could have just created you at this very moment. yes but it didn't.
    - goldenkey 7y ago
      You simply don't know that is my point. By continually asserting it you are demonstrating a lack of actual scientific thinking. It is convenient to trust one's memory and the physics of the universe as consistent and indubitably pure. But you have been around less than 100 years in a universe of billions of years. So claiming any kind of self assuredness about the universe or consciousnesses's patterns is total foolishness. A glimpse doesn't warrant authority to describe the entire landscape.
- thrwwya3947 7y ago
  Hey you're right I forgot to mention that MAYBE the brain might have a long cord going off into soul land and that's where the real stuff happens. You know - in the cloud. It's just that maybe we just haven't found that cord yet. It's like super super transparent! Hard to see. Wireless, even. That's why you can't think in a faraday cage. No access to the cloud. see how silly that sounds. so on one level sure you're right, on the other hand it's obvious. no, there's obviously no super transparent cord going off to soul land. it's just a bunch of sell-contained cells. It's not wireless. It's not even networked. It's just limited to within your body. You can literally plunge yourself in water and still think. you have no cord going off into ether. you are nnot a networked component. you are just a bunch of cells in one little package and that's it. That's you. your output is what your body does robotically (move, make sounds) your input is sensory. and your consciousnes is whatever your braincells are doing.
  - lm28469 7y ago
    You forgot to mention that your theory requires that _nothing_ gave birth to _everything_ via _undefined behaviours_ with intelligence and consciousness being mere side effects. That's at least as silly as the other explanation. > there's obviously no super transparent cord going off to soul land. You make it sounds extra silly by using this type of language. Remember when hardcore scientists were saying "my dear you must be mad to think the earth is round", or "yeah OBVIOUSLY the stars are pinned to crystal spheres, they can't just fly, that would be silly". Anyway, the only thing we can be sure of is that we just don't know. Everything else is simply stories we tell ourselves to make us feel better. We play little games, but not all games offer the same experiences.
    - thrwwya3947 7y ago
      I make it silly because it's silly. either there's a wireess soul organ connecting us to the cloud, where the REAL thinking happens, or it's just some meat: exactly what it looks like. what do you think the chances are of finding a small metaphysical soul organ in the brain, that connects us to the ether where all the real consciousness happens, is? Give a percentage chance of that happening.
- post_below 7y ago
  It's true that it isn't something we can say definitively. It's more than a philosophical belief, however. There isn't any evidence that there is anything happening that's not biological despite 1000's of years of searching for that evidence. And there is all kinds of evidence that biological processes can explain our experience. More all the time. It's not definitive in the sense that we're anywhere near completely understanding our biology. But it's the most likely explanation, given what we do know, but such a huge margin that there is no real alternative explanation outside of mythology.
  - thrwwya3947 7y ago
    they could always discover the wireless soul organ in the brain, which connects us to the cloud, where the real thinking happens. did they even look? /s
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    >There isn't any evidence that there is anything happening that's not biological despite 1000's of years of searching for that evidence. Do you consider software in a computer to be mechanical? You could record the 1010101 in an electricity stream and conclude there is no meaning to that electricity beyond getting from point A to point B in a chip.
  - c0vfefe 7y ago
    > There isn't any evidence that there is anything happening that's not biological despite 1000's of years of searching for that evidence. If we're looking for something supernatural like a soul, then we shouldn't expect to see natural evidence. Thus the lack of that evidence does not imply its nonexistence. Relevant xkcd: https://www.xkcd.com/638/ https://www.xkcd.com/638/
    - post_below 7y ago
      We have no evidence that supernatural is even a thing. Sure you can say that our lack of evidence means nothing since we don't have the capability, through natural laws, to acquire that evidence. But that's just another way of justifying faith as a rational argument. The only reason we have to believe in the supernatural is mythology. And the only reason we have to believe mythology is faith (and fear).

baggy_trough 7y ago

You can't really say that definitively. It is just a philosophical belief.

goldenkey 7y ago
Its also the kettle calling itself black. The kettle, the calling, the self, that's all G..Nature..Universe, whatever you wanna call it. You cannot be sure you are anything in this universe. Even a sentence like "I think therefore I am" requires short term memory. The universe could have just created you at this very moment. Its all subject to corruption, subterfuge, and undecidability. Big woop, you find out that the brain is connecting to your thinking, that still doesn't explain why you, why the universe, why the brain, and why the thinking.
- thrwwya3947 7y ago
  >The universe could have just created you at this very moment. yes but it didn't.
  - goldenkey 7y ago
    You simply don't know that is my point. By continually asserting it you are demonstrating a lack of actual scientific thinking. It is convenient to trust one's memory and the physics of the universe as consistent and indubitably pure. But you have been around less than 100 years in a universe of billions of years. So claiming any kind of self assuredness about the universe or consciousnesses's patterns is total foolishness. A glimpse doesn't warrant authority to describe the entire landscape.
thrwwya3947 7y ago
Hey you're right I forgot to mention that MAYBE the brain might have a long cord going off into soul land and that's where the real stuff happens. You know - in the cloud. It's just that maybe we just haven't found that cord yet. It's like super super transparent! Hard to see. Wireless, even. That's why you can't think in a faraday cage. No access to the cloud. see how silly that sounds. so on one level sure you're right, on the other hand it's obvious. no, there's obviously no super transparent cord going off to soul land. it's just a bunch of sell-contained cells. It's not wireless. It's not even networked. It's just limited to within your body. You can literally plunge yourself in water and still think. you have no cord going off into ether. you are nnot a networked component. you are just a bunch of cells in one little package and that's it. That's you. your output is what your body does robotically (move, make sounds) your input is sensory. and your consciousnes is whatever your braincells are doing.
- lm28469 7y ago
  You forgot to mention that your theory requires that _nothing_ gave birth to _everything_ via _undefined behaviours_ with intelligence and consciousness being mere side effects. That's at least as silly as the other explanation. > there's obviously no super transparent cord going off to soul land. You make it sounds extra silly by using this type of language. Remember when hardcore scientists were saying "my dear you must be mad to think the earth is round", or "yeah OBVIOUSLY the stars are pinned to crystal spheres, they can't just fly, that would be silly". Anyway, the only thing we can be sure of is that we just don't know. Everything else is simply stories we tell ourselves to make us feel better. We play little games, but not all games offer the same experiences.
  - thrwwya3947 7y ago
    I make it silly because it's silly. either there's a wireess soul organ connecting us to the cloud, where the REAL thinking happens, or it's just some meat: exactly what it looks like. what do you think the chances are of finding a small metaphysical soul organ in the brain, that connects us to the ether where all the real consciousness happens, is? Give a percentage chance of that happening.
post_below 7y ago
It's true that it isn't something we can say definitively. It's more than a philosophical belief, however. There isn't any evidence that there is anything happening that's not biological despite 1000's of years of searching for that evidence. And there is all kinds of evidence that biological processes can explain our experience. More all the time. It's not definitive in the sense that we're anywhere near completely understanding our biology. But it's the most likely explanation, given what we do know, but such a huge margin that there is no real alternative explanation outside of mythology.
- thrwwya3947 7y ago
  they could always discover the wireless soul organ in the brain, which connects us to the cloud, where the real thinking happens. did they even look? /s
- friendlybus 7y ago
  >There isn't any evidence that there is anything happening that's not biological despite 1000's of years of searching for that evidence. Do you consider software in a computer to be mechanical? You could record the 1010101 in an electricity stream and conclude there is no meaning to that electricity beyond getting from point A to point B in a chip.
- c0vfefe 7y ago
  > There isn't any evidence that there is anything happening that's not biological despite 1000's of years of searching for that evidence. If we're looking for something supernatural like a soul, then we shouldn't expect to see natural evidence. Thus the lack of that evidence does not imply its nonexistence. Relevant xkcd: https://www.xkcd.com/638/ https://www.xkcd.com/638/
  - post_below 7y ago
    We have no evidence that supernatural is even a thing. Sure you can say that our lack of evidence means nothing since we don't have the capability, through natural laws, to acquire that evidence. But that's just another way of justifying faith as a rational argument. The only reason we have to believe in the supernatural is mythology. And the only reason we have to believe mythology is faith (and fear).