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A modern insulated building can sustain < 30 degree celsius if the outside temperature is 40 degree celsius. (If you open the windows at night to let the buildi

by srrr 7y ago

A modern insulated building can sustain < 30 degree celsius if the outside temperature is 40 degree celsius. (If you open the windows at night to let the building cool down or have other methods of air exchange.) I don't think building a/c everywere is the right solution if we suffer from climate change due to our energy consumption habbits... (And I was never refused free tap water in Germany. Puzzling.)

scrollaway 7y ago
I'm all for passive and natural cooling, but that involves new buildings. Central AC is still a lot more efficient than "every apartment gets individual AC", which is the norm in eg. Athens.
- throw0101a 7y ago
  Ductless mini-split heat pumps would work well and are quite efficient. Each apartment can get a separately metered unit, with one compressor serving multiple indoor air units. The indoor units can be in different rooms, each set to different temperatures, with different schedules (why cool the bedroom during the day?). Typical units can heat the home to >20C even if the outside temperature outside is 5C, and there are even units that can extract heat from outside when it is -20C (originally designed for northern Japan).
  - scrollaway 7y ago
    Am I missing something or does this not help with air conditioning? Heating in europe is pretty high quality overall; the problem is with cooling.
    - throw0101a 7y ago
      Heat pumps transfer heat. In the summer they take heat from inside a building, and dump it outside. In the winter, they extract heat from the outside air and send it inside. The same unit does both heating and cooling. You also do not need to renovate a home as much to install them. Traditionally air ducts are often used for a lot of HVAC, and they can sometimes be a hassle to retrofit into older buildings. Heat pumps using ~1-2cm pipes between the external compressor and internal 'heads' to move the heat, so it's a lot easier to run that pipe (like plumbing) than a much larger air duct.
dahfizz 7y ago
> A modern insulated building can sustain < 30 degree celsius if the outside temperature is 40 degree celsius. (If you open the windows at night to let the building cool down or have other methods of air exchange.). Great! Now all we have to do is tear down and rebuild old buildings, coordinate window policy with hundreds of tenants, and build out expensive air exchangers that don't run on electricity. That is much better than AC.
- srrr 7y ago
  Or retrofit the old buildings? Or go visit a friend living in a cold building for a day? Or bike to a nearby lake and enjoy the swim? There are so many things we can do if we just want to... do we really need to put our personal comfort before the healthyness of our planet?
  - scrollaway 7y ago
    This hippie idea that if only we weren't so selfish we'd be better off isn't exactly useful. Yes, if only we weren't so selfish, we'd be better off. What's the action item here? People are selfish and self-centered and are going to put their personal comfort above the health of the planet. And since the health of the planet is important, and you can't change human nature, then we better figure out real ways to make personal comfort be less harmful to the planet, rather than rely on "friends living in colder buildings".
    - srrr 7y ago
      If you are certain that "make people less selfish" is no goal for actionable items and people are only comfort driven, there is another simple solution: Reduce the comfort. Make them pay more money every time they show descructive behaviour. Tax them for it.
      - dahfizz 7y ago
        There's an even better solution: make the "destructive" behavior not destructive. Instead of taxing elderly people for selfishly installing AC so they don't die, we should focus on improving technology such that running AC is not harmful to the planet. Using taxes to reduce bad behavior can slow down climate change, but it could never stop it. Technology is the only real solution.

by srrr 7y ago

scrollaway 7y ago

I'm all for passive and natural cooling, but that involves new buildings. Central AC is still a lot more efficient than "every apartment gets individual AC", which is the norm in eg. Athens.

throw0101a 7y ago
Ductless mini-split heat pumps would work well and are quite efficient. Each apartment can get a separately metered unit, with one compressor serving multiple indoor air units. The indoor units can be in different rooms, each set to different temperatures, with different schedules (why cool the bedroom during the day?). Typical units can heat the home to >20C even if the outside temperature outside is 5C, and there are even units that can extract heat from outside when it is -20C (originally designed for northern Japan).
- scrollaway 7y ago
  Am I missing something or does this not help with air conditioning? Heating in europe is pretty high quality overall; the problem is with cooling.
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    Heat pumps transfer heat. In the summer they take heat from inside a building, and dump it outside. In the winter, they extract heat from the outside air and send it inside. The same unit does both heating and cooling. You also do not need to renovate a home as much to install them. Traditionally air ducts are often used for a lot of HVAC, and they can sometimes be a hassle to retrofit into older buildings. Heat pumps using ~1-2cm pipes between the external compressor and internal 'heads' to move the heat, so it's a lot easier to run that pipe (like plumbing) than a much larger air duct.

dahfizz 7y ago

> A modern insulated building can sustain < 30 degree celsius if the outside temperature is 40 degree celsius. (If you open the windows at night to let the building cool down or have other methods of air exchange.). Great! Now all we have to do is tear down and rebuild old buildings, coordinate window policy with hundreds of tenants, and build out expensive air exchangers that don't run on electricity. That is much better than AC.

srrr 7y ago
Or retrofit the old buildings? Or go visit a friend living in a cold building for a day? Or bike to a nearby lake and enjoy the swim? There are so many things we can do if we just want to... do we really need to put our personal comfort before the healthyness of our planet?
- scrollaway 7y ago
  This hippie idea that if only we weren't so selfish we'd be better off isn't exactly useful. Yes, if only we weren't so selfish, we'd be better off. What's the action item here? People are selfish and self-centered and are going to put their personal comfort above the health of the planet. And since the health of the planet is important, and you can't change human nature, then we better figure out real ways to make personal comfort be less harmful to the planet, rather than rely on "friends living in colder buildings".
  - srrr 7y ago
    If you are certain that "make people less selfish" is no goal for actionable items and people are only comfort driven, there is another simple solution: Reduce the comfort. Make them pay more money every time they show descructive behaviour. Tax them for it.
    - dahfizz 7y ago
      There's an even better solution: make the "destructive" behavior not destructive. Instead of taxing elderly people for selfishly installing AC so they don't die, we should focus on improving technology such that running AC is not harmful to the planet. Using taxes to reduce bad behavior can slow down climate change, but it could never stop it. Technology is the only real solution.