3 ms·

I get that. However, the DOT has used the approach in other areas with great success. In many cases, the concrete roadways were put in before finite element a

I get that. However, the DOT has used the approach in other areas with great success. In many cases, the concrete roadways were put in before finite element analysis models were available or even remotely realistic. A lot of research has gone into how to repair these after the fact so that money is saved and you don't get the thumpity thump, etc. States make their own choices, though. The DOT can only cajole them by dangling money. If the only competency in a state DOT is to cut a check, and there is not going to be any price to be paid for putting in a road that is unsafe or that does not last or that costs too much, then it is more likely that too much money will be spent. Another related story is this relative went to Germany to confer with counterparts over there and compare notes. The Germans were laughing at them because they use the US research, but the US doesn't. We have great research spanning multiple decades, but political concerns are what end up determining how roads are built.

Anechoic 7y ago
However, the DOT has used the approach in other areas with great success. And I get that - in fact I live it. I'm a government contractor that works on transportation projects and it's frustrating when a particular agency doesn't want to use an innovative technique or design that has literally been successful on another project that's only a few miles away but project managers don't want to be testifying in front of their state legislatures about wasting tax payer money with a new fangled approach when the tried and true could have been used. Magazines like Engineering News-Record and ASME/ASCE journals bang the drum for concepts like "state of good repair" and ROI, but as long as the public will hang a politician or project manager out to try for an unsuccessful project (or worse, a new technique that kills someone), project managers will route around risk. Again, I'm not saying this is why US projects are so expensive, but there is often a rational through process behind seemingly irrational decisions. (yes, there are times where incompetency and/or corruption are also to blame, but IME it's much less often than portrayed in this thread).
- mc32 7y ago
  Maybe the construction industry or infrastructure need to find their analogue to “cloud” and “AI” so that when the heads of these departments from different states get together they can crow about how their contractors are using “smart” concrete and “smart” building techniques built with the assistance of DoT AI. Something to make them feel like they’re keeping up with the other state DoT Joneses.
- Gravityloss 7y ago
  Interesting dynamic. It's also behind the theory why NASA missions tend to become huge and long lasting. No iteration. Failures avoided at all cost.

Anechoic 7y ago

However, the DOT has used the approach in other areas with great success. And I get that - in fact I live it. I'm a government contractor that works on transportation projects and it's frustrating when a particular agency doesn't want to use an innovative technique or design that has literally been successful on another project that's only a few miles away but project managers don't want to be testifying in front of their state legislatures about wasting tax payer money with a new fangled approach when the tried and true could have been used. Magazines like Engineering News-Record and ASME/ASCE journals bang the drum for concepts like "state of good repair" and ROI, but as long as the public will hang a politician or project manager out to try for an unsuccessful project (or worse, a new technique that kills someone), project managers will route around risk. Again, I'm not saying this is why US projects are so expensive, but there is often a rational through process behind seemingly irrational decisions. (yes, there are times where incompetency and/or corruption are also to blame, but IME it's much less often than portrayed in this thread).

mc32 7y ago
Maybe the construction industry or infrastructure need to find their analogue to “cloud” and “AI” so that when the heads of these departments from different states get together they can crow about how their contractors are using “smart” concrete and “smart” building techniques built with the assistance of DoT AI. Something to make them feel like they’re keeping up with the other state DoT Joneses.
Gravityloss 7y ago
Interesting dynamic. It's also behind the theory why NASA missions tend to become huge and long lasting. No iteration. Failures avoided at all cost.