4 ms·

> the tools are well documented, and everything works as expected. Their stack is predictable, consistent, and dependable. If you want to be able to focus on yo

> the tools are well documented, and everything works as expected. Their stack is predictable, consistent, and dependable. If you want to be able to focus on your product instead of the tools you're using[4], then the Microsoft stack is great. Note: It's cheaper to have your tools work than to hire someone on salary to maintain and debug them. I don't doubt all you say is true. But consider someone (like me for example) with a Unixy skill-set. I know PHP, MySQL, PhpMyAdmin, Python, Django, Unix text processing tools, etc, and while the MS equivalents may well be very good, when you factor in my time learning to use them, I'm not going to be as productive. One of the reasons I know all these tools is that getting started is simply sudo apt-get install whatever and I'm off. If MS want a higher uptake of their developer tools, they might make them as easy to get at as that. I understand that with BizSpark I can use Microsoft's tools without paying much money. But there's a bureaucratic process to getting on the BizSpark program, which I'm guessing takes days or weeks to achieve. By comparison, sudo apt-get install takes seconds. And that's why I'm using Unix-based tools in my startup.

allwein 16y ago
You've created a nice little strawman there. Microsoft offers free versions of their developer tools with the various Visual Studio Express editions and Sql Server Express. If you're looking into more enterprise-y software, Microsoft offers free time-limited versions of pretty much all their server and productivity software.
- jbooth 16y ago
  It's not a straw-man. To get that free version, I've got to go to MSDN, register, jump through a bunch of hoops, download some way-too-big installer, run a long installation process, reboot a couple times.. I mean, not that I would ever think of pirating software from a giant corporation that wouldn't even notice the lost revenue, but bittorrent is only very slightly more work than all of that. apt-get is a whole different plane of ease. It adds about a 3-second fixed-cost to trying a new tool.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
    Have you ever actually done it? The process of "fill out a form once," hit the Download button and walk away then come back an hour later to answer a few setup questions with Visual Studio is far from the onerous task you make it seem. I'm no MS fanboy -- my current side project is PHP/LAMP all the way, but I have made money with their free tools.
    - gnufreex 16y ago
      And if their stuff doesn't work as expected? "Sorry, you are not paying customer, so buzz off" or "sorry, but not enough paying customers want that fixed. You are minority, your money is worthless, so buzz off". While with Free Software you can have your people fix it, or hire consultant. I don't believe in that Bill Gates' ( http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html ) "Microsoft code has no bugs" religious gospel. All software has bugs, except Free one can get fixed.
- cabalamat 16y ago
  So if I wanted to I could just download Visual Studio Express for C#, and there's no catch or anything? (That's useful information, I might do it)
  - johns 16y ago
    Correct. There are free versions of VS for C#, Web, etc.
jtdowney 16y ago
Check out the Web Platform Installer (http://www.microsoft.com/web/downloads/platform.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/web/downloads/platform.aspx) it is a close approximation of apt-get install for the Microsoft web stack (ASP.NET, SQL Server, IIS, VS Express)
- nailer 16y ago
  Sure, but it's less than a thousandth the size, and MS still needs you to restart the whole userspace, kernel, and machine firmware when you install software for some bizarre reason. Upgrading MongoDB is a five second job. Upgrading SQL server is nightmarish and scary.
  - nailer 16y ago
    Odd downmod. Does someone think the web platform installer has more apps than APT? Or just more than a thousandth? If so, you should probably have checked the size of APT any time in the last 12 years (I'm not sure about before then). Or do they not believe Windows requires OS restarts anymore (as of Windows 2008R2 it still does, for Microsoft apps too)? Try setting up a server with Office Web apps - it's about five complete OS restarts.

allwein 16y ago

You've created a nice little strawman there. Microsoft offers free versions of their developer tools with the various Visual Studio Express editions and Sql Server Express. If you're looking into more enterprise-y software, Microsoft offers free time-limited versions of pretty much all their server and productivity software.

jbooth 16y ago
It's not a straw-man. To get that free version, I've got to go to MSDN, register, jump through a bunch of hoops, download some way-too-big installer, run a long installation process, reboot a couple times.. I mean, not that I would ever think of pirating software from a giant corporation that wouldn't even notice the lost revenue, but bittorrent is only very slightly more work than all of that. apt-get is a whole different plane of ease. It adds about a 3-second fixed-cost to trying a new tool.
- HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
  Have you ever actually done it? The process of "fill out a form once," hit the Download button and walk away then come back an hour later to answer a few setup questions with Visual Studio is far from the onerous task you make it seem. I'm no MS fanboy -- my current side project is PHP/LAMP all the way, but I have made money with their free tools.
  - gnufreex 16y ago
    And if their stuff doesn't work as expected? "Sorry, you are not paying customer, so buzz off" or "sorry, but not enough paying customers want that fixed. You are minority, your money is worthless, so buzz off". While with Free Software you can have your people fix it, or hire consultant. I don't believe in that Bill Gates' ( http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html ) "Microsoft code has no bugs" religious gospel. All software has bugs, except Free one can get fixed.
cabalamat 16y ago
So if I wanted to I could just download Visual Studio Express for C#, and there's no catch or anything? (That's useful information, I might do it)
- johns 16y ago
  Correct. There are free versions of VS for C#, Web, etc.

jtdowney 16y ago

Check out the Web Platform Installer (http://www.microsoft.com/web/downloads/platform.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/web/downloads/platform.aspx) it is a close approximation of apt-get install for the Microsoft web stack (ASP.NET, SQL Server, IIS, VS Express)

nailer 16y ago
Sure, but it's less than a thousandth the size, and MS still needs you to restart the whole userspace, kernel, and machine firmware when you install software for some bizarre reason. Upgrading MongoDB is a five second job. Upgrading SQL server is nightmarish and scary.
- nailer 16y ago
  Odd downmod. Does someone think the web platform installer has more apps than APT? Or just more than a thousandth? If so, you should probably have checked the size of APT any time in the last 12 years (I'm not sure about before then). Or do they not believe Windows requires OS restarts anymore (as of Windows 2008R2 it still does, for Microsoft apps too)? Try setting up a server with Office Web apps - it's about five complete OS restarts.