4 ms·

I can respect your point of view as I think that it's based on some historical realities that cannot be so easily dismissed. However if you look at the history

I can respect your point of view as I think that it's based on some historical realities that cannot be so easily dismissed. However if you look at the history of NYT articles on Turkey and Erdogan going back years [1], there are scant few articles that are critical of Turkey or Erdogan in the way this and other articles in the past weeks and months have been (beginning from the time Turkey began to drift away from its traditional allies). Recent articles have directly called into question the legitimacy of the AKP and Erdogan himself who was elected through a democratic process. > I would've thought if this particular timing was a case of "Manufacturing Consent" rather than just a coincidence, it would've happened earlier. From my point of view, this article and others like it could be interpreted as a very early precursor to forced regime change in Turkey. Time will tell if I am correct. Turkey switching sides presents an existential threat to NATO and the balance of power in region, especially considering the power of Turkey's military and Erdogan's stance on the issue of Israel and Palestine. To me, they could be seen as examples of the mainstream media laying the groundwork -building popular support- for some kind of future, punitive military or economic action. They look suspiciously like the articles printed in the lead-up to the disasters of Libya, Iraq, Syria. Of course, this is all just speculation, based on how the informal American propaganda apparatus (described by Chomsky) has operated in the past. There are many, many problems with Turkey and Erdogan and there is much to answer for, but I'm of the opinion that U.S style regime change is not the solution. I think it behooves us to be extremely critical and even suspicious of any source of information that was designed for mass dissemination and consumption. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=erdogan&sort=newest https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=erdogan&sort=newest

antod 7y ago
> From my point of view, this article and others like it could be interpreted as a very early precursor to forced regime change in Turkey. Maybe, but it seems a bit much for them to even entertain that one - they (whoever they actually is) haven't had any luck with Iran or North Korea where whipping up some sort of frenzy or story about a direct threat would seem much easier. Getting Turkey to that position of threat seems like pushing shit uphill. My point is that once you're aware of Manufactured Consent being a thing that has happened, it can be easy to see it everywhere even when it isn't necessarily there. Overdoing it can be a little hard to distinguish from deepstate/illuminati conspiracy theorists. Edit - definitely not implying this here.
- tepidandroid 7y ago
  Agreed and point well received. Just want to point out that the situation in NK is different than Turkey because, as we all know, it's a nuclear power in close proximity to a treaty ally. With Iran... well, we can see the ridiculous predicament that we are in today because of the unilateral actions of one party over a treaty agreed to by 7 signatories. I would not rule out direct military intervention and regime change in the near future there just yet (at massive cost of human life). The world has seen one too many times what happens when nations disobey the global hegemon. It may indeed seem silly and tin-foil hat-ish, but there are many ways of forcing regime change without overtly declaring war. Coup d'états, spontaneously occurring uprisings, etc. Not to indulge in the paranoia of world leaders too much, but Erdogan famously survived his 2016 coup which he claims to have been backed by the CIA [1]. The Philippines' Duterte has mentioned in several interviews (in a non-sarcastic way) his fear of being assassinated by the CIA after his pivot towards China [2]. The truth is that geopolitics is probably simultaneously more boring and more full of intrigue than we can imagine. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt#Allegation_of_a_strong_CIA_role https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... [2] https://youtu.be/rHjlCmdyesY?t=645 https://youtu.be/rHjlCmdyesY?t=645

antod 7y ago

> From my point of view, this article and others like it could be interpreted as a very early precursor to forced regime change in Turkey. Maybe, but it seems a bit much for them to even entertain that one - they (whoever they actually is) haven't had any luck with Iran or North Korea where whipping up some sort of frenzy or story about a direct threat would seem much easier. Getting Turkey to that position of threat seems like pushing shit uphill. My point is that once you're aware of Manufactured Consent being a thing that has happened, it can be easy to see it everywhere even when it isn't necessarily there. Overdoing it can be a little hard to distinguish from deepstate/illuminati conspiracy theorists. Edit - definitely not implying this here.

tepidandroid 7y ago
Agreed and point well received. Just want to point out that the situation in NK is different than Turkey because, as we all know, it's a nuclear power in close proximity to a treaty ally. With Iran... well, we can see the ridiculous predicament that we are in today because of the unilateral actions of one party over a treaty agreed to by 7 signatories. I would not rule out direct military intervention and regime change in the near future there just yet (at massive cost of human life). The world has seen one too many times what happens when nations disobey the global hegemon. It may indeed seem silly and tin-foil hat-ish, but there are many ways of forcing regime change without overtly declaring war. Coup d'états, spontaneously occurring uprisings, etc. Not to indulge in the paranoia of world leaders too much, but Erdogan famously survived his 2016 coup which he claims to have been backed by the CIA [1]. The Philippines' Duterte has mentioned in several interviews (in a non-sarcastic way) his fear of being assassinated by the CIA after his pivot towards China [2]. The truth is that geopolitics is probably simultaneously more boring and more full of intrigue than we can imagine. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt#Allegation_of_a_strong_CIA_role https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... [2] https://youtu.be/rHjlCmdyesY?t=645 https://youtu.be/rHjlCmdyesY?t=645