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Being able to test your code out in the real world and dark launch a feature gives Tesla a ridiculous advantage. No other company has the infrastructure to be a

Being able to test your code out in the real world and dark launch a feature gives Tesla a ridiculous advantage. No other company has the infrastructure to be able to do that. Plus they can even tell if the decision the neural net made was wrong because I assume even Tesla knows you got into an accident. And this over thousands of cars. The speed at which they are collecting data is unprecedented.

skybrian 7y ago
Well, maybe. Since most of this data will be very repetitive, I don't think we can know for sure how much it helps?
- imglorp 7y ago
  You (and neural nets) learn the most when a boring repetition is violated. The error function was activated and that's worth feeding back into learning. Ask any kid, they probably couldn't say what happened at school all week. But if they do remember something, it would have been something outside of their routine.
- imglorp 7y ago
  You (and neural nets) learn the most in the smaller number of cases when a boring repetition is violated. The error function was activated and that's worth feeding back into learning. Ask any kid, they probably couldn't say what happened at school all week. But if they do remember something, it would have been something outside of their routine.
  - skybrian 7y ago
    Yes, exactly! We don't know the amount or quality of interesting data from the total amount of data.
BoorishBears 7y ago
I'm so tired of this unapologetic Tesla hand holding. > No other company has the infrastructure to be able to do that. Because they don't want it. They don't want AP regressions we've already seen happen. They don't want engineers testing code out on real people's lives. You really think other companies just don't know how to send OTA updates to an ECU or other car components? I could literally put that together with scraps in my garage, my car's ECU can be flashed over OBD, it'd be trivial to write firmware for a microcontroller to repeat a set of OBD commands downloaded from a webserver. Obviously an auto manufacturer would do more than that, but there is literally nothing but choice stopping other manufacturers from doing this. Why is everything Tesla does always suddenly some sort of competitive advantage. Next people will be saying the fact they have cars that spell out "S3XY" is a competitive advantage.
- leesec 7y ago
  You are giving big OEM's way too much credit, imo, haha. What you suggested would take at least a year for them to setup at all, let alone work the bugs and making it useful.
- snuze 7y ago
  As someone in the industry (with domain knowledge), I can tell you that you are oversimplifying the problem and ignoring Tesla’s advantage and leadership in this space. Other manufacturers have to account for legacy systems/designs, it is not as trivial as you make it sound.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    Tesla has to account for legacy systems and designs, since they refresh models all the time without even bothering with distinct ("set in stone") model identifiers (like year). For example, there is no such thing as a "2018 Model 3" as there were multiple variants released over the year with changes over the year, not including the range-based option packages. In fact, Tesla's legacy systems are actually a disadvantage perspective, since they have to account for a much larger range of hardware configurations than do legacy automakers.
  - BoorishBears 7y ago
    I even state that I'm oversimplifying the problem. Other manufacturers do have to account for legacy systems, you don't need to be in the industry to understand the relationships manufacturers have with companies like Bosch and know they're not in full control of their destiny. But their advantage is not a "let's ignore dumpster fire financials quarter of quarter to earn them a multi billion dollar market cap" big. Tesla is not worth 42B dollars because manufacturers can't figure out OTA updates, and the fact other manufacturers don't have OTA updates should be a rounding error when you list advantages that warrant that market cap. It doesn't take any insider knowledge to know that, just common sense, and for far too long people have been ignoring that in preference for TSLA hype. I got out last year during the 420 nonsense so honestly I don't know why I'm even bothering with all this, the fact anyone needs more than that to see TSLA is not worth your time is interesting. Anything from that point onward was just icing on the bear cake for me.

skybrian 7y ago

Well, maybe. Since most of this data will be very repetitive, I don't think we can know for sure how much it helps?

imglorp 7y ago
You (and neural nets) learn the most when a boring repetition is violated. The error function was activated and that's worth feeding back into learning. Ask any kid, they probably couldn't say what happened at school all week. But if they do remember something, it would have been something outside of their routine.
imglorp 7y ago
You (and neural nets) learn the most in the smaller number of cases when a boring repetition is violated. The error function was activated and that's worth feeding back into learning. Ask any kid, they probably couldn't say what happened at school all week. But if they do remember something, it would have been something outside of their routine.
- skybrian 7y ago
  Yes, exactly! We don't know the amount or quality of interesting data from the total amount of data.

BoorishBears 7y ago

I'm so tired of this unapologetic Tesla hand holding. > No other company has the infrastructure to be able to do that. Because they don't want it. They don't want AP regressions we've already seen happen. They don't want engineers testing code out on real people's lives. You really think other companies just don't know how to send OTA updates to an ECU or other car components? I could literally put that together with scraps in my garage, my car's ECU can be flashed over OBD, it'd be trivial to write firmware for a microcontroller to repeat a set of OBD commands downloaded from a webserver. Obviously an auto manufacturer would do more than that, but there is literally nothing but choice stopping other manufacturers from doing this. Why is everything Tesla does always suddenly some sort of competitive advantage. Next people will be saying the fact they have cars that spell out "S3XY" is a competitive advantage.

leesec 7y ago
You are giving big OEM's way too much credit, imo, haha. What you suggested would take at least a year for them to setup at all, let alone work the bugs and making it useful.
snuze 7y ago
As someone in the industry (with domain knowledge), I can tell you that you are oversimplifying the problem and ignoring Tesla’s advantage and leadership in this space. Other manufacturers have to account for legacy systems/designs, it is not as trivial as you make it sound.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  Tesla has to account for legacy systems and designs, since they refresh models all the time without even bothering with distinct ("set in stone") model identifiers (like year). For example, there is no such thing as a "2018 Model 3" as there were multiple variants released over the year with changes over the year, not including the range-based option packages. In fact, Tesla's legacy systems are actually a disadvantage perspective, since they have to account for a much larger range of hardware configurations than do legacy automakers.
- BoorishBears 7y ago
  I even state that I'm oversimplifying the problem. Other manufacturers do have to account for legacy systems, you don't need to be in the industry to understand the relationships manufacturers have with companies like Bosch and know they're not in full control of their destiny. But their advantage is not a "let's ignore dumpster fire financials quarter of quarter to earn them a multi billion dollar market cap" big. Tesla is not worth 42B dollars because manufacturers can't figure out OTA updates, and the fact other manufacturers don't have OTA updates should be a rounding error when you list advantages that warrant that market cap. It doesn't take any insider knowledge to know that, just common sense, and for far too long people have been ignoring that in preference for TSLA hype. I got out last year during the 420 nonsense so honestly I don't know why I'm even bothering with all this, the fact anyone needs more than that to see TSLA is not worth your time is interesting. Anything from that point onward was just icing on the bear cake for me.