4 ms·

Turkey is an extension of a multi-national empire which had extreme levels of animosity between its nations, people who identified as non-turks were severely pe

by chr1 7y ago

Turkey is an extension of a multi-national empire which had extreme levels of animosity between its nations, people who identified as non-turks were severely penalized in the past, and to this day allegations of having a non Turk grandparent is something that can be used against politicians. Armenian is still considered an offensive word in Turkey, (as is Turk in Armenia), so portraying Turkey as an idyllic multi-national country is self-deception. Everyone can agree that killing people should be condemned, but it is important to remember that the terrorism of P.K.K. is more similar to American revolution against Britain than to the Al-qaeda terrorism, and it have arised not because some Kurds are despicable people but because there are real unsolved problems still present in Turkey.

tuvan 7y ago
Yes, racism exists. Armenian, Greek etc are used as insults by racist people. This doesn’t mean that it is the general state of public. People like Trump use Mexican as an insult, that doesn’t change the fact that there are tons of people with Mexican roots that identify as American and are well respected by the non-racist majority of the nation. I don’t see how PKK is anything like American revolution. PKK isn’t representing any form of official group, they aren’t acting in favor of any specific agenda. There is no ‘real unsolved problem still present in Turkey’ that can justify suicide bombing civilians. They are indirectly funded by USA through military aids to PKKs extension PYD. If you asked what does PKK want to Turkish people, there would be no clear answer, as all PKK ever accomplished was stirring the political climate every single time there was a possibility of political stability in the area.
- chr1 7y ago
  Do you know of any cases where anyone in America called someone "Mexican" as an insult? Could someone file a lawsuit because he was called "Mexican"? I don't think so, and i don't think USA and Turkey are comparable. PKK and Kurds want to have their own country, that's natural, every nation wants that, and if history have taken a bit different path Turks could be in the same situation. If there was free speech in Turkey and non-racists were really the overwhelming majority, then the people who go into PKK would simply try to hold a referendum for independence (like people in Scotland), and most likely would not get the majority vote (again like Scotland), but unfortunately Turkey still has a long way to go to get there.
  - tuvan 7y ago
    Kurds have an independent country, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan In this day and age, seperatist referandums are just dreams. Kurdistan Kurds had a referandum to declare complete independence from Iraq with 90%+ in favor of independance but they couldn’t make that recognized by international parties, even with Iraq having no practical government. And we saw what happened when Catalans attempted the same thing. Though considering the elections in April Erdogans party got more votes in south eastern Turkey than pro PKK HDP. It is very easy to see that Kurds prefer Erdogan over PKK.
    - chr1 7y ago
      Kurds have independent country only on part of their historic territory. Turkey being independent didn't hinder turks to take half of Cyprus where Turks were not even majority, unlike the territory claimed by Kurds, where Kurds are majority because Turkey was too effective in getting rid of Armenians and Assyrians. You are correct that existing states are very reluctant to recognize new countries, but my point is that a mere glimmer of hope is enough so significantly reduce terrorism like it with Basque country for instance. > Though considering the elections in April Erdogans party got more votes in south eastern Turkey than pro PKK HDP. It is very easy to see that Kurds prefer Erdogan over PKK. That or maybe people with guns supporting Erdoghans party were effective https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Turkish_local_elections#Violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Turkish_local_elections#V...
Gibbon1 7y ago
> people who identified as non-turks were severely penalized in the past, The word you are looking for is murdered.
m00dy 7y ago
I dont really understand why people are making concrete assumptions about a terrorist organization without living in the country. Terrorism of PKK cannot be comparable to American revolution. You never lived in Turkey and you dont know the culture there. Turkey and US have completely different cultural basis and you cant just show up and making assumptions like these. I mean of course you can, from my point of view it is just funny.
- chr1 7y ago
  If you want examples closer to Turkey take Greek War of Independence, or forces fighting for liberation of Bulgaria, or northern Ireland. I have not lived in Turkey but my grandparents did, and i know some people who do live in Turkey. Of course i do not support terrorism, but PKK exists largely because unfair laws, untold stories, and ethnic hatred existing in Turkey. The only way to really win the fight with PKK is not force, but free speech and human rights. If you could tell your perspective on the issue, of why what i say is baseless and funny, I would be grateful.
  - m00dy 7y ago
    PKK killed a Turkish Diplomat in Northern Iraq last week [0]. You can't really explain this by lack of free speech or human rights. There are many cases like this in Turkey's history where innocent people get assassinated by some cowards. [0]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-shooting-today-turkey-diplomats-irbil-kurdish-middle-east-a9008441.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-sh...
    - chr1 7y ago
      That is horrible, but a supporter of PKK would reply that Turkish army have killed and displaced Kurds in Afrin. War is an ugly thing, and everyone involved loses from it. The way free speech and human rights can help, is the same way it helped with conflicts in Europe. The country where speaking in kurdish can get an MP sentenced to 15 years for "separatist speech", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people_in_Turkey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people..., where there is a law for "insulting Turkishness" used against people like Taner Akçam, is deeply ill, and that illness is the cause of PKK.

by chr1 7y ago

tuvan 7y ago

Yes, racism exists. Armenian, Greek etc are used as insults by racist people. This doesn’t mean that it is the general state of public. People like Trump use Mexican as an insult, that doesn’t change the fact that there are tons of people with Mexican roots that identify as American and are well respected by the non-racist majority of the nation. I don’t see how PKK is anything like American revolution. PKK isn’t representing any form of official group, they aren’t acting in favor of any specific agenda. There is no ‘real unsolved problem still present in Turkey’ that can justify suicide bombing civilians. They are indirectly funded by USA through military aids to PKKs extension PYD. If you asked what does PKK want to Turkish people, there would be no clear answer, as all PKK ever accomplished was stirring the political climate every single time there was a possibility of political stability in the area.

chr1 7y ago
Do you know of any cases where anyone in America called someone "Mexican" as an insult? Could someone file a lawsuit because he was called "Mexican"? I don't think so, and i don't think USA and Turkey are comparable. PKK and Kurds want to have their own country, that's natural, every nation wants that, and if history have taken a bit different path Turks could be in the same situation. If there was free speech in Turkey and non-racists were really the overwhelming majority, then the people who go into PKK would simply try to hold a referendum for independence (like people in Scotland), and most likely would not get the majority vote (again like Scotland), but unfortunately Turkey still has a long way to go to get there.
- tuvan 7y ago
  Kurds have an independent country, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan In this day and age, seperatist referandums are just dreams. Kurdistan Kurds had a referandum to declare complete independence from Iraq with 90%+ in favor of independance but they couldn’t make that recognized by international parties, even with Iraq having no practical government. And we saw what happened when Catalans attempted the same thing. Though considering the elections in April Erdogans party got more votes in south eastern Turkey than pro PKK HDP. It is very easy to see that Kurds prefer Erdogan over PKK.
  - chr1 7y ago
    Kurds have independent country only on part of their historic territory. Turkey being independent didn't hinder turks to take half of Cyprus where Turks were not even majority, unlike the territory claimed by Kurds, where Kurds are majority because Turkey was too effective in getting rid of Armenians and Assyrians. You are correct that existing states are very reluctant to recognize new countries, but my point is that a mere glimmer of hope is enough so significantly reduce terrorism like it with Basque country for instance. > Though considering the elections in April Erdogans party got more votes in south eastern Turkey than pro PKK HDP. It is very easy to see that Kurds prefer Erdogan over PKK. That or maybe people with guns supporting Erdoghans party were effective https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Turkish_local_elections#Violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Turkish_local_elections#V...

Gibbon1 7y ago

> people who identified as non-turks were severely penalized in the past, The word you are looking for is murdered.

m00dy 7y ago

I dont really understand why people are making concrete assumptions about a terrorist organization without living in the country. Terrorism of PKK cannot be comparable to American revolution. You never lived in Turkey and you dont know the culture there. Turkey and US have completely different cultural basis and you cant just show up and making assumptions like these. I mean of course you can, from my point of view it is just funny.

chr1 7y ago
If you want examples closer to Turkey take Greek War of Independence, or forces fighting for liberation of Bulgaria, or northern Ireland. I have not lived in Turkey but my grandparents did, and i know some people who do live in Turkey. Of course i do not support terrorism, but PKK exists largely because unfair laws, untold stories, and ethnic hatred existing in Turkey. The only way to really win the fight with PKK is not force, but free speech and human rights. If you could tell your perspective on the issue, of why what i say is baseless and funny, I would be grateful.
- m00dy 7y ago
  PKK killed a Turkish Diplomat in Northern Iraq last week [0]. You can't really explain this by lack of free speech or human rights. There are many cases like this in Turkey's history where innocent people get assassinated by some cowards. [0]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-shooting-today-turkey-diplomats-irbil-kurdish-middle-east-a9008441.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-sh...
  - chr1 7y ago
    That is horrible, but a supporter of PKK would reply that Turkish army have killed and displaced Kurds in Afrin. War is an ugly thing, and everyone involved loses from it. The way free speech and human rights can help, is the same way it helped with conflicts in Europe. The country where speaking in kurdish can get an MP sentenced to 15 years for "separatist speech", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people_in_Turkey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people..., where there is a law for "insulting Turkishness" used against people like Taner Akçam, is deeply ill, and that illness is the cause of PKK.