6 ms·

Tipping model is at its tipping point. It is high time US citizens stop tipping and make businesses realize that the customers are not directly responsible for

Tipping model is at its tipping point. It is high time US citizens stop tipping and make businesses realize that the customers are not directly responsible for employee wages.

cameronbrown 7y ago
Devil's Advocate: Many people in the hospitality industry are making far more via tips than they'd receive from a market wage.
- dajohnson89 7y ago
  many people are also NOT making what they could be making, if paid a fair wage. At the very least, they're subject to an insane amount of income insecurity. If a bartender at a sluggish restaurant is scheduled monday-wednesday, instead of his usual fri-sunday, he's probably screwed and making a fraction of what he normally does.
  - walru 7y ago
    True, but at the same time not every bartender makes a great cocktail, or cares to. If people want service levels to race to the bottom this is the way to do it. The main problem with the DD model is that they're asking people to decide a tip before being provided a service. That's unfair to the customer and driver. As far as paying a decent wage before that, DD could provide a mile cost reimbursement as well as one for the time spent on the order. Paying the driver a blanket fee for every order they deliver rather than one based on time and millage is not sustainable. I understand that's much how the model used to work, but the whole thing about tip culture is rewarding people who do the little things to make the experience worth it for you having to pay extra. As a customer of DD you're only going to be aware of things after you've received your food. Also, if a bartender is not getting the best shifts, that may be because the bar cycles their shifts or they aren't as good, or maybe Wednesday is a busier night and they only staff one bartender so that person may end up doing better than having to split a bar with several others. That said, if it's busier on a Saturday and the bartenders are getting hammered, why should they have to subsidize the bartender who isn't there?
    - pluma 7y ago
      I too think my bartender should starve if they make so-so a cocktail.
      - walru 7y ago
        I didn't say that. My point is that people who excel at their jobs should have the ability to be rewarded. Do you disagree?
        robryan 7y ago
        The problem is when a tip is expected in almost all circumstances. Pay them a proper wage for their ability and set prices accordingly. You can still have tips but it shifts from basically every time to instances of truly exceptional performance.
        pluma 7y ago
        American tipping culture exists in the service industry because the base wage is not livable. Yes, tips should not be mandatory. But first you need a livable minimum wage or otherwise "tipping" is not primarily about rewarding outstanding service but about making sure they can eat.
        walru 7y ago
        I agree with you fully. The fact that certain states are still so far behind with paying a wage under $3/hr is archaic and needs to be shamed until it is brought up with federal/region standards. That said, the biggest problem with most service type employees right now, and this sadly gets away from DD, but is the amount of hours they are being given to work. I know many people who only get 12-18 hours a week at their service job (and even worse, you can be sent home early or even called off if it's slow), and even in CA where minimum wage is $14.25, one cannot pay rent let alone earn a living or even hope to have or provide for a family.
        tssva 7y ago
        Quality bartenders generate increased revenue for businesses by either being more efficient and/or driving additional business. If a bartender excels at their job this can be objectively measured and their pay rate increased vs their peers as a reward.
- Terretta 7y ago
  Then it's part of the 'market' and will rebalance.
- luma 7y ago
  But which among those are making far more? Is it the person who goes the extra mile to ensure good service? Or is it the attractive, white, young, well-dressed, well-groomed, well-educated, and well-spoken person? Tipping has been shown over and over again to be horribly discriminatory against those who don't line up with the list presented above.
  - res0nat0r 7y ago
    Good bartenders of all kinds with a primo gig can make $400-600 a night for an 8-9 hour shift. I worked in restaurants for a long time and think tipping to make up for paltry hourly pay is idiotic, but I can see why many people work late hours and weekends because they payoff is very high if you're in a good gig.
- pluma 7y ago
  So what you're saying is that the minimum wage is too low.
- ajross 7y ago
  That's a spun "many", though. Sure, "many" are. "Many" are not. And at the low end of the wage spectrum the difference in personal welfare has a very steep curve. If, say, 20% of workers are doing well over minimum wage in tips, does that justify the (again, totally made up number) 10% who are making less?
- quest88 7y ago
  Couldn't people still tip if they thought the service was truly exceptional?
ikeyany 7y ago
No way others in the industry go for this. If you had the option to legally pay 20%+ less in taxes, would you? Exactly.
- pacetherace 7y ago
  If I had the option to not pay taxes, obviously I wouldn't but I don't that that has any relation to tipping. On the other hand, when the government asks to donate for a disaster, does everybody contribute even if they completely sympathize with the issue? You may do it sometimes, but will you do it every time there is a disaster? Will you do it even if you can afford it? What will be your opinion of the government if they tell you "We can't deal with these disasters unless we get donations. We know these same disasters happen every year and we should have budgeted properly but we didn't do it for political reasons. But now if you don't donate, people will be in trouble" Tipping is a way of showing your appreciation for service. But if it has to be done every time, then you may as well call it a service charge.
throwtipaway 7y ago
A lot of us are already doing this. I get weird looks all the time, or people will get upset if we’re in a group. A few times waiters actually got upset and asked me why I wasn’t tipping. It’s hard but by principle I’ll still refuse to tip. I wish there was a subreddit community. Maybe r/notip ?

Tipping model is at its tipping point. It is high time US citizens stop tipping and make businesses realize that the customers are not directly responsible for employee wages.

cameronbrown 7y ago

Devil's Advocate: Many people in the hospitality industry are making far more via tips than they'd receive from a market wage.

dajohnson89 7y ago
many people are also NOT making what they could be making, if paid a fair wage. At the very least, they're subject to an insane amount of income insecurity. If a bartender at a sluggish restaurant is scheduled monday-wednesday, instead of his usual fri-sunday, he's probably screwed and making a fraction of what he normally does.
- walru 7y ago
  True, but at the same time not every bartender makes a great cocktail, or cares to. If people want service levels to race to the bottom this is the way to do it. The main problem with the DD model is that they're asking people to decide a tip before being provided a service. That's unfair to the customer and driver. As far as paying a decent wage before that, DD could provide a mile cost reimbursement as well as one for the time spent on the order. Paying the driver a blanket fee for every order they deliver rather than one based on time and millage is not sustainable. I understand that's much how the model used to work, but the whole thing about tip culture is rewarding people who do the little things to make the experience worth it for you having to pay extra. As a customer of DD you're only going to be aware of things after you've received your food. Also, if a bartender is not getting the best shifts, that may be because the bar cycles their shifts or they aren't as good, or maybe Wednesday is a busier night and they only staff one bartender so that person may end up doing better than having to split a bar with several others. That said, if it's busier on a Saturday and the bartenders are getting hammered, why should they have to subsidize the bartender who isn't there?
  - pluma 7y ago
    I too think my bartender should starve if they make so-so a cocktail.
    - walru 7y ago
      I didn't say that. My point is that people who excel at their jobs should have the ability to be rewarded. Do you disagree?
      - robryan 7y ago
        The problem is when a tip is expected in almost all circumstances. Pay them a proper wage for their ability and set prices accordingly. You can still have tips but it shifts from basically every time to instances of truly exceptional performance.
      - pluma 7y ago
        American tipping culture exists in the service industry because the base wage is not livable. Yes, tips should not be mandatory. But first you need a livable minimum wage or otherwise "tipping" is not primarily about rewarding outstanding service but about making sure they can eat.
        walru 7y ago
        I agree with you fully. The fact that certain states are still so far behind with paying a wage under $3/hr is archaic and needs to be shamed until it is brought up with federal/region standards. That said, the biggest problem with most service type employees right now, and this sadly gets away from DD, but is the amount of hours they are being given to work. I know many people who only get 12-18 hours a week at their service job (and even worse, you can be sent home early or even called off if it's slow), and even in CA where minimum wage is $14.25, one cannot pay rent let alone earn a living or even hope to have or provide for a family.
      - tssva 7y ago
        Quality bartenders generate increased revenue for businesses by either being more efficient and/or driving additional business. If a bartender excels at their job this can be objectively measured and their pay rate increased vs their peers as a reward.
Terretta 7y ago
Then it's part of the 'market' and will rebalance.
luma 7y ago
But which among those are making far more? Is it the person who goes the extra mile to ensure good service? Or is it the attractive, white, young, well-dressed, well-groomed, well-educated, and well-spoken person? Tipping has been shown over and over again to be horribly discriminatory against those who don't line up with the list presented above.
- res0nat0r 7y ago
  Good bartenders of all kinds with a primo gig can make $400-600 a night for an 8-9 hour shift. I worked in restaurants for a long time and think tipping to make up for paltry hourly pay is idiotic, but I can see why many people work late hours and weekends because they payoff is very high if you're in a good gig.
pluma 7y ago
So what you're saying is that the minimum wage is too low.
ajross 7y ago
That's a spun "many", though. Sure, "many" are. "Many" are not. And at the low end of the wage spectrum the difference in personal welfare has a very steep curve. If, say, 20% of workers are doing well over minimum wage in tips, does that justify the (again, totally made up number) 10% who are making less?
quest88 7y ago
Couldn't people still tip if they thought the service was truly exceptional?

ikeyany 7y ago

No way others in the industry go for this. If you had the option to legally pay 20%+ less in taxes, would you? Exactly.

pacetherace 7y ago
If I had the option to not pay taxes, obviously I wouldn't but I don't that that has any relation to tipping. On the other hand, when the government asks to donate for a disaster, does everybody contribute even if they completely sympathize with the issue? You may do it sometimes, but will you do it every time there is a disaster? Will you do it even if you can afford it? What will be your opinion of the government if they tell you "We can't deal with these disasters unless we get donations. We know these same disasters happen every year and we should have budgeted properly but we didn't do it for political reasons. But now if you don't donate, people will be in trouble" Tipping is a way of showing your appreciation for service. But if it has to be done every time, then you may as well call it a service charge.

throwtipaway 7y ago

A lot of us are already doing this. I get weird looks all the time, or people will get upset if we’re in a group. A few times waiters actually got upset and asked me why I wasn’t tipping. It’s hard but by principle I’ll still refuse to tip. I wish there was a subreddit community. Maybe r/notip ?