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Almost certainly they switched contractors because of corruption. Here in Montreal, it's well known that the mob runs the construction industry and quite frank

Almost certainly they switched contractors because of corruption. Here in Montreal, it's well known that the mob runs the construction industry and quite frankly you're not allowed to even bid on contracts without their say so, otherwise you'll get visited for a very frank chat. So I can't speak for why infrastructure is expensive elsewhere, but atleast here in Quebec (& likely RoC) it's simply because of corruption. See the recent woes of SNC Lavalin.

glitchc 7y ago
Also explains the crumbling infrastructure of Montreal. The mob always needs more money to do the same work, sometimes many times more.
Analemma_ 7y ago
The thing is, even if this is true, it still doesn’t explain the cost difference between us and e.g. Japan. Construction firms and public infrastructure works in Japan have well-known ties to the yakuza, yet they still finish these at way lower costs than us (even though labor is more expensive!) Why?
- smolder 7y ago
  Cultural differences: Japan is pretty homogenous and they seem to see themselves as part of a whole whereas in the US, for example, exploiting your fellow citizens for profit is almost a matter of duty in business.
  - BubRoss 7y ago
    Seems like a cliched and simplistic explanation to just waive away a large difference with 'culture'.
    - siphon22 7y ago
      Sometimes things really are that simple though. Why can you (most of the time) leave your bike outside a store you stop at in Japan but not in America? Because it isn't part of Japanese culture to take what doesn't belong to you, but is normal for a number of Americans. Why can you get relatively wholesome food at a 7-11 in East Asian countries while you get junk and trash at ones in America? Because Japanese people prefer real food over getting chips and a crappy sandwich for lunch. Why are nice public facilities possible in those kinds of countries and not America? Because those people don't wreck, vandalize, and spray grafiti on them, while Americans do.
      - late2part 7y ago
        I'm an American and I don't wreck, vandalize or spray grafiti. I've seen same in Japan, Brazil, India, Hong Kong, Singapore, Paris, etc... (and US). Your generalizations are lazy.
        siphon22 7y ago
        You are one American. Generally, in American culture, the things I described are commonplace and par for the course while in East Asian countries (or other smaller, homogenous countries) not so much. If it does happen sometimes in those places, it is generally far less acceptable while in America you must simply accept it and factor it into the cost of operation. Having lived here all my life, it is funny to see anyone deny it. And I am not surprised vandalism and graffiti occurs in Brazil, India, and Paris by the way. I would group those places in the same realm as the U.S.
        magduf 7y ago
        Yeah, I'm American too, and I don't understand why people like the OP are so willing to defend this country against claims that are so obviously true. Vandalism and graffiti are very common in America, though of course it really depends on the area. There's plenty of graffiti in Europe too. Japan, no. I find it really odd how some people will say good things about other place's cultures, but then deny that culture is a factor when discussing the bad parts about a place. Culture is a real thing, it really does exist, and it isn't always good.
  - ralusek 7y ago
    Except in areas where citizens are allowed to "exploit their fellow citizens," i.e. markets, things are done in the US and elsewhere extremely efficiently. The problem with public infrastructure spending is that incentive structures are not cost driven, or at least not primarily as a function of cost. There are promises made to unions or contractor companies who pay the politicians or makeup major parts of their constituencies. Then there are other departments that have their say, such as environmental impact analyses. Then there is major price insensitivity, because the funding was guaranteed from taxes with absolutely no implication or responsibility to spend wisely or generate a return.
  - Gibbon1 7y ago
    yakuza would probably be mortified if they were responsible for things going badly.
- magduf 7y ago
  Even the Yakuza feel a sense of social obligation.
sureste 7y ago
The Guardian had a so-called Concrete Week[1] earlier this year when they published articles related to the concrete industry and its impact. One of the articles [2] touched briefly on the corruption related to the building and concrete industry. I assure you, these mafias exist in a lot of places. Odebrecht has entangled governments of Peru and Brazil with corruption here in South America. I would be interested where else has this happened. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/series/guardian-concrete-week https://www.theguardian.com/cities/series/guardian-concrete-... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/25/concrete-the-most-destructive-material-on-earth https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/25/concrete-the-...
- paganel 7y ago
  Teh French cement company Lafarge did business with jihadis in Syria during the current civil war, including with the Islamic State [1]. That's corruption on a whole new level, as I'm 100% sure the decision to conduct this type of business was taken at the company's HQ in France. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/28/lafarge-charged-with-complicity-in-syria-crimes-against-humanity https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/28/lafarge-charge...
cosmodisk 7y ago
15 years ago,I worked on a residential project. Being a young boy with not much of work experience, I found it quite amusing. One day I got assigned to register all incoming deliveries. So here comes this truck with bricks.The driver gets off the truck,I inspect the bricks and he gives me the paperwork to sign: it says 7 trucks with n pallets of bricks..I look at the driver,at the truck and ask him: so where are the other 6 trucks??? The driver looks at me,has a good laugh and says: that's not something you or I need to worry about. Just sign and move on...The H&S inspector from the council used to pay occasional visits to the site.He told the site manager that if someone dies,he should call him first and then the ambulance...The owner of the business used to come on site on weekly basis to pay us wages.He used to carry a briefcase stuffed with money and a gun...On the opposite site of the road there used to be the office of a political party..The head of the party used to come to our site for money. The site manager used to call the project owners,local millionaires, asking what to do.They used to tell him to give him the money and they will reimburse him later on... It was a circus of a highest order...
- late2part 7y ago
  Why would you passively participate? This seems like corruption at its core - something worthy of a fight against!
  - FooHentai 7y ago
    I think that's addressed in the parent >He used to carry a briefcase stuffed with money and a gun
moltar 7y ago
The worst part is we still have shit roads. And this has been studied. The reason is simple. The pave mix uses used car engine oil instead of new bitum/oil. This leads to surface crumbling at much higher rate. Yet everything is blamed on the winter and salt.

glitchc 7y ago

Also explains the crumbling infrastructure of Montreal. The mob always needs more money to do the same work, sometimes many times more.

Analemma_ 7y ago

The thing is, even if this is true, it still doesn’t explain the cost difference between us and e.g. Japan. Construction firms and public infrastructure works in Japan have well-known ties to the yakuza, yet they still finish these at way lower costs than us (even though labor is more expensive!) Why?

smolder 7y ago
Cultural differences: Japan is pretty homogenous and they seem to see themselves as part of a whole whereas in the US, for example, exploiting your fellow citizens for profit is almost a matter of duty in business.
- BubRoss 7y ago
  Seems like a cliched and simplistic explanation to just waive away a large difference with 'culture'.
  - siphon22 7y ago
    Sometimes things really are that simple though. Why can you (most of the time) leave your bike outside a store you stop at in Japan but not in America? Because it isn't part of Japanese culture to take what doesn't belong to you, but is normal for a number of Americans. Why can you get relatively wholesome food at a 7-11 in East Asian countries while you get junk and trash at ones in America? Because Japanese people prefer real food over getting chips and a crappy sandwich for lunch. Why are nice public facilities possible in those kinds of countries and not America? Because those people don't wreck, vandalize, and spray grafiti on them, while Americans do.
    - late2part 7y ago
      I'm an American and I don't wreck, vandalize or spray grafiti. I've seen same in Japan, Brazil, India, Hong Kong, Singapore, Paris, etc... (and US). Your generalizations are lazy.
      - siphon22 7y ago
        You are one American. Generally, in American culture, the things I described are commonplace and par for the course while in East Asian countries (or other smaller, homogenous countries) not so much. If it does happen sometimes in those places, it is generally far less acceptable while in America you must simply accept it and factor it into the cost of operation. Having lived here all my life, it is funny to see anyone deny it. And I am not surprised vandalism and graffiti occurs in Brazil, India, and Paris by the way. I would group those places in the same realm as the U.S.
        magduf 7y ago
        Yeah, I'm American too, and I don't understand why people like the OP are so willing to defend this country against claims that are so obviously true. Vandalism and graffiti are very common in America, though of course it really depends on the area. There's plenty of graffiti in Europe too. Japan, no. I find it really odd how some people will say good things about other place's cultures, but then deny that culture is a factor when discussing the bad parts about a place. Culture is a real thing, it really does exist, and it isn't always good.
- ralusek 7y ago
  Except in areas where citizens are allowed to "exploit their fellow citizens," i.e. markets, things are done in the US and elsewhere extremely efficiently. The problem with public infrastructure spending is that incentive structures are not cost driven, or at least not primarily as a function of cost. There are promises made to unions or contractor companies who pay the politicians or makeup major parts of their constituencies. Then there are other departments that have their say, such as environmental impact analyses. Then there is major price insensitivity, because the funding was guaranteed from taxes with absolutely no implication or responsibility to spend wisely or generate a return.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  yakuza would probably be mortified if they were responsible for things going badly.
magduf 7y ago
Even the Yakuza feel a sense of social obligation.

sureste 7y ago

The Guardian had a so-called Concrete Week[1] earlier this year when they published articles related to the concrete industry and its impact. One of the articles [2] touched briefly on the corruption related to the building and concrete industry. I assure you, these mafias exist in a lot of places. Odebrecht has entangled governments of Peru and Brazil with corruption here in South America. I would be interested where else has this happened. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/series/guardian-concrete-week https://www.theguardian.com/cities/series/guardian-concrete-... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/25/concrete-the-most-destructive-material-on-earth https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/25/concrete-the-...

paganel 7y ago
Teh French cement company Lafarge did business with jihadis in Syria during the current civil war, including with the Islamic State [1]. That's corruption on a whole new level, as I'm 100% sure the decision to conduct this type of business was taken at the company's HQ in France. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/28/lafarge-charged-with-complicity-in-syria-crimes-against-humanity https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/28/lafarge-charge...

cosmodisk 7y ago

15 years ago,I worked on a residential project. Being a young boy with not much of work experience, I found it quite amusing. One day I got assigned to register all incoming deliveries. So here comes this truck with bricks.The driver gets off the truck,I inspect the bricks and he gives me the paperwork to sign: it says 7 trucks with n pallets of bricks..I look at the driver,at the truck and ask him: so where are the other 6 trucks??? The driver looks at me,has a good laugh and says: that's not something you or I need to worry about. Just sign and move on...The H&S inspector from the council used to pay occasional visits to the site.He told the site manager that if someone dies,he should call him first and then the ambulance...The owner of the business used to come on site on weekly basis to pay us wages.He used to carry a briefcase stuffed with money and a gun...On the opposite site of the road there used to be the office of a political party..The head of the party used to come to our site for money. The site manager used to call the project owners,local millionaires, asking what to do.They used to tell him to give him the money and they will reimburse him later on... It was a circus of a highest order...

late2part 7y ago
Why would you passively participate? This seems like corruption at its core - something worthy of a fight against!
- FooHentai 7y ago
  I think that's addressed in the parent >He used to carry a briefcase stuffed with money and a gun

moltar 7y ago

The worst part is we still have shit roads. And this has been studied. The reason is simple. The pave mix uses used car engine oil instead of new bitum/oil. This leads to surface crumbling at much higher rate. Yet everything is blamed on the winter and salt.