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It's interesting to note that the NYT publishes this damning piece mere weeks after Erdogan green-lighted Turkey's purchase of Russian S-400 missile systems des

It's interesting to note that the NYT publishes this damning piece mere weeks after Erdogan green-lighted Turkey's purchase of Russian S-400 missile systems despite the U.S threatening to kick them out of the F-35 program if they did so. The story appears at a time when an important NATO ally is straying from the pack and leaning instead towards Russia's sphere of influence. My prediction is that we will be seeing more and more mainstream-media pieces like this in the near future, with a healthy sprinkling of words such as "regime", "dictatorship" and “fascism”, and featuring characters like Demirtas as protagonists of the story. They will undoubtedly be portrayed as freedom-fighters leading the fight against oppression. Manufacturing Consent was truly prophetic.

jayess 7y ago
NYT has always been a tool of the political establishment.
antod 7y ago
or... damning articles about the situation in Turkey have been popping up regularly for 5ish years now. IMO they need to keep popping up frankly. Likewise, Turkey's increasing moves away from NATO towards Russia were always going to reach a threshold where some steplike point was crossed (the F-35 vs S-400 thing) and some public consequences happened. I would've thought if this particular timing was a case of "Manufacturing Consent" rather than just a coincidence, it would've happened earlier. I'm basically of the opinion that it is pretty clear Turkey is heading in the wrong direction, and the powers that be in the west have no reason to manufacture that story.
- tepidandroid 7y ago
  I can respect your point of view as I think that it's based on some historical realities that cannot be so easily dismissed. However if you look at the history of NYT articles on Turkey and Erdogan going back years [1], there are scant few articles that are critical of Turkey or Erdogan in the way this and other articles in the past weeks and months have been (beginning from the time Turkey began to drift away from its traditional allies). Recent articles have directly called into question the legitimacy of the AKP and Erdogan himself who was elected through a democratic process. > I would've thought if this particular timing was a case of "Manufacturing Consent" rather than just a coincidence, it would've happened earlier. From my point of view, this article and others like it could be interpreted as a very early precursor to forced regime change in Turkey. Time will tell if I am correct. Turkey switching sides presents an existential threat to NATO and the balance of power in region, especially considering the power of Turkey's military and Erdogan's stance on the issue of Israel and Palestine. To me, they could be seen as examples of the mainstream media laying the groundwork -building popular support- for some kind of future, punitive military or economic action. They look suspiciously like the articles printed in the lead-up to the disasters of Libya, Iraq, Syria. Of course, this is all just speculation, based on how the informal American propaganda apparatus (described by Chomsky) has operated in the past. There are many, many problems with Turkey and Erdogan and there is much to answer for, but I'm of the opinion that U.S style regime change is not the solution. I think it behooves us to be extremely critical and even suspicious of any source of information that was designed for mass dissemination and consumption. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=erdogan&sort=newest https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=erdogan&sort=newest
  - antod 7y ago
    > From my point of view, this article and others like it could be interpreted as a very early precursor to forced regime change in Turkey. Maybe, but it seems a bit much for them to even entertain that one - they (whoever they actually is) haven't had any luck with Iran or North Korea where whipping up some sort of frenzy or story about a direct threat would seem much easier. Getting Turkey to that position of threat seems like pushing shit uphill. My point is that once you're aware of Manufactured Consent being a thing that has happened, it can be easy to see it everywhere even when it isn't necessarily there. Overdoing it can be a little hard to distinguish from deepstate/illuminati conspiracy theorists. Edit - definitely not implying this here.
    - tepidandroid 7y ago
      Agreed and point well received. Just want to point out that the situation in NK is different than Turkey because, as we all know, it's a nuclear power in close proximity to a treaty ally. With Iran... well, we can see the ridiculous predicament that we are in today because of the unilateral actions of one party over a treaty agreed to by 7 signatories. I would not rule out direct military intervention and regime change in the near future there just yet (at massive cost of human life). The world has seen one too many times what happens when nations disobey the global hegemon. It may indeed seem silly and tin-foil hat-ish, but there are many ways of forcing regime change without overtly declaring war. Coup d'états, spontaneously occurring uprisings, etc. Not to indulge in the paranoia of world leaders too much, but Erdogan famously survived his 2016 coup which he claims to have been backed by the CIA [1]. The Philippines' Duterte has mentioned in several interviews (in a non-sarcastic way) his fear of being assassinated by the CIA after his pivot towards China [2]. The truth is that geopolitics is probably simultaneously more boring and more full of intrigue than we can imagine. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt#Allegation_of_a_strong_CIA_role https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... [2] https://youtu.be/rHjlCmdyesY?t=645 https://youtu.be/rHjlCmdyesY?t=645

jayess 7y ago

NYT has always been a tool of the political establishment.

antod 7y ago

or... damning articles about the situation in Turkey have been popping up regularly for 5ish years now. IMO they need to keep popping up frankly. Likewise, Turkey's increasing moves away from NATO towards Russia were always going to reach a threshold where some steplike point was crossed (the F-35 vs S-400 thing) and some public consequences happened. I would've thought if this particular timing was a case of "Manufacturing Consent" rather than just a coincidence, it would've happened earlier. I'm basically of the opinion that it is pretty clear Turkey is heading in the wrong direction, and the powers that be in the west have no reason to manufacture that story.

tepidandroid 7y ago
I can respect your point of view as I think that it's based on some historical realities that cannot be so easily dismissed. However if you look at the history of NYT articles on Turkey and Erdogan going back years [1], there are scant few articles that are critical of Turkey or Erdogan in the way this and other articles in the past weeks and months have been (beginning from the time Turkey began to drift away from its traditional allies). Recent articles have directly called into question the legitimacy of the AKP and Erdogan himself who was elected through a democratic process. > I would've thought if this particular timing was a case of "Manufacturing Consent" rather than just a coincidence, it would've happened earlier. From my point of view, this article and others like it could be interpreted as a very early precursor to forced regime change in Turkey. Time will tell if I am correct. Turkey switching sides presents an existential threat to NATO and the balance of power in region, especially considering the power of Turkey's military and Erdogan's stance on the issue of Israel and Palestine. To me, they could be seen as examples of the mainstream media laying the groundwork -building popular support- for some kind of future, punitive military or economic action. They look suspiciously like the articles printed in the lead-up to the disasters of Libya, Iraq, Syria. Of course, this is all just speculation, based on how the informal American propaganda apparatus (described by Chomsky) has operated in the past. There are many, many problems with Turkey and Erdogan and there is much to answer for, but I'm of the opinion that U.S style regime change is not the solution. I think it behooves us to be extremely critical and even suspicious of any source of information that was designed for mass dissemination and consumption. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=erdogan&sort=newest https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=erdogan&sort=newest
- antod 7y ago
  > From my point of view, this article and others like it could be interpreted as a very early precursor to forced regime change in Turkey. Maybe, but it seems a bit much for them to even entertain that one - they (whoever they actually is) haven't had any luck with Iran or North Korea where whipping up some sort of frenzy or story about a direct threat would seem much easier. Getting Turkey to that position of threat seems like pushing shit uphill. My point is that once you're aware of Manufactured Consent being a thing that has happened, it can be easy to see it everywhere even when it isn't necessarily there. Overdoing it can be a little hard to distinguish from deepstate/illuminati conspiracy theorists. Edit - definitely not implying this here.
  - tepidandroid 7y ago
    Agreed and point well received. Just want to point out that the situation in NK is different than Turkey because, as we all know, it's a nuclear power in close proximity to a treaty ally. With Iran... well, we can see the ridiculous predicament that we are in today because of the unilateral actions of one party over a treaty agreed to by 7 signatories. I would not rule out direct military intervention and regime change in the near future there just yet (at massive cost of human life). The world has seen one too many times what happens when nations disobey the global hegemon. It may indeed seem silly and tin-foil hat-ish, but there are many ways of forcing regime change without overtly declaring war. Coup d'états, spontaneously occurring uprisings, etc. Not to indulge in the paranoia of world leaders too much, but Erdogan famously survived his 2016 coup which he claims to have been backed by the CIA [1]. The Philippines' Duterte has mentioned in several interviews (in a non-sarcastic way) his fear of being assassinated by the CIA after his pivot towards China [2]. The truth is that geopolitics is probably simultaneously more boring and more full of intrigue than we can imagine. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt#Allegation_of_a_strong_CIA_role https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... [2] https://youtu.be/rHjlCmdyesY?t=645 https://youtu.be/rHjlCmdyesY?t=645