5 ms·

Tipping just needs to die. If your business model demands that customers pay your price + 20% to pay your employees a wage they'll accept, then just increase yo

by imgabe 7y ago

Tipping just needs to die. If your business model demands that customers pay your price + 20% to pay your employees a wage they'll accept, then just increase your price by 20% and pay your employees that wage to begin with. Don't lie to customers and tell them the price is 20% lower than it really is when they're expected to add on more.

draw_down 7y ago
I love when these stories pop up because I get to see HNers grind their axe against the general practice of tipping. You all never disappoint!
Phobophobia 7y ago
I generally concur. Living in Japan for a month, attending budget and 5-star accommodations and dining, it was very streamlined to have minimal tipping expected [or unexpected].
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  I've lived in Japan, and you notice the lack of tipping culture. Service is a lot worse. Go to any restaurant, you won't get service, refills etc. You have to yell or get it yourself. That's what the service would be like without tips. Servers have no incentive to take care of your table if they get paid the same either way. I'm fine with that system, as long as it's setup that way. Give me a way to refill my drink etc. But sometimes it's setup where they have to do it, and you're either waiting an hour for a drink or a check.
  - asark 7y ago
    Other countries don't have the same notion of what good service is, and don't expect the server to be up your ass about drink refills every 30s to count as good service. They expect you to ask if you need something, so they're not bugging you. It's just a difference in what's considered better. You see the other style at finer (expensive) restaurants in the US, sometimes. It's really nice to be able to chat with your fellow diners without some stranger constantly bugging you while being pretend-nice.
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
      Right, I said that's fine as long as I'm able to serve myself it's okay. But when you can't find your server for an hour when you just want the check to leave, it's a bit ridiculous. The tipping culture is directly reflective of the type of service American's like to receive. I was just using Japan as an example of a different service culture since the GP brought up the comparison.
  - jonathanbull 7y ago
    I agree that service is generally better in North America (vs the UK, at least), but I'm not convinced that the tipping culture has much of an impact. Tipping is so customary in the US that I find most people just tip the same amount - give or take 5% - even if the service was terrible.
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
      That's extremely anecdotal, and I have experience in the other direction. I don't tip if service is terrible, I give over if it's great. I don't have numbers, but I'd assume people who have awful service will more likely tip less or none.
ronnier 7y ago
I think the biggest problem I have with tipping is something I never hear people talk about -- it forces us to pay at the end instead of upfront. Usually the process goes like this: 0: sit, bring water, give order, wait for food 1: eat 2: wait for the waiter to notice we are done. This can take a long time. 3: they want to pre clean the table, at which we say we are done, bring the check please 4: they drop off the check, if you are lucky, you can hand the card to them then, 5: If not, wait for them to come back to pick up your credit card 6: wait some unknown amount of time for them to bring your card back so you can sign and leave a tip It's so much easier to pay up front and leave the second you are ready. Sometimes that ritual at the end takes longer than it takes me to eat my food.
- vocatus_gate 7y ago
  I typically request my check immediately upon receiving the food. That way I can leave whenever I'm ready and not sit around waiting.
- snuxoll 7y ago
  They’re not perfect, but every time I dine at Red Robin I like having the little kiosk at the table so I can pay when I’m ready instead of waiting for the check, the waiter to grab my card, etc. It’s a nice solution when eating with a group that is likely to order additional drinks, etc. over the course of a meal too.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- cpeterso 7y ago
  Paying at the end of the meal allows you to order additional drinks or desserts after your initial order.
- everdrive 7y ago
  It's the introvert's bane. I'm done being at the restaurant, but I can't leave when I choose to.
  - 7y ago
S_A_P 7y ago
In the scenario you describe, I would agree. However, that isn't really a tip. If a service worker provides great service, the option to compensate them for their services should be allowed.(and the inverse for terrible service). A tip should never go to the business, and if the business is collecting it, it should only go to the tip pool to pay the supporting staff as well.
- imgabe 7y ago
  I agree it's not really a tip, which should be purely optional. Unfortunately it's not treated that way in most of the US, where "expected tips" are allowed to be treated as a part of the employee's compensation. The employer/employee wage negotiation should be completely independent of any tips and the employee should be receiving a wage they would be happy with even if they got 0 tips. Any tips should be in addition to that.
- WhompingWindows 7y ago
  Why do we have a carve-out for certain industries and not others? I provide services of a different kind but I don't get tips. Literally all the arguments for tips should be applied to all service jobs, which is most jobs these days. How does it make sense to have them for a small subset of the US economy, especially given numerous other countries don't tip that subset.
- koala_man 7y ago
  Would you feel equally comfortable applying the same concept to your own job?
  - S_A_P 7y ago
    yes. But if I didn't feel comfortable, or felt like I was not being adequately compensated, I would change my job. I didnt get into my line of work because it was glamorous and rewarding, I got into it because the pay was good.

by imgabe 7y ago

draw_down 7y ago

I love when these stories pop up because I get to see HNers grind their axe against the general practice of tipping. You all never disappoint!

Phobophobia 7y ago

I generally concur. Living in Japan for a month, attending budget and 5-star accommodations and dining, it was very streamlined to have minimal tipping expected [or unexpected].

s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
I've lived in Japan, and you notice the lack of tipping culture. Service is a lot worse. Go to any restaurant, you won't get service, refills etc. You have to yell or get it yourself. That's what the service would be like without tips. Servers have no incentive to take care of your table if they get paid the same either way. I'm fine with that system, as long as it's setup that way. Give me a way to refill my drink etc. But sometimes it's setup where they have to do it, and you're either waiting an hour for a drink or a check.
- asark 7y ago
  Other countries don't have the same notion of what good service is, and don't expect the server to be up your ass about drink refills every 30s to count as good service. They expect you to ask if you need something, so they're not bugging you. It's just a difference in what's considered better. You see the other style at finer (expensive) restaurants in the US, sometimes. It's really nice to be able to chat with your fellow diners without some stranger constantly bugging you while being pretend-nice.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    Right, I said that's fine as long as I'm able to serve myself it's okay. But when you can't find your server for an hour when you just want the check to leave, it's a bit ridiculous. The tipping culture is directly reflective of the type of service American's like to receive. I was just using Japan as an example of a different service culture since the GP brought up the comparison.
- jonathanbull 7y ago
  I agree that service is generally better in North America (vs the UK, at least), but I'm not convinced that the tipping culture has much of an impact. Tipping is so customary in the US that I find most people just tip the same amount - give or take 5% - even if the service was terrible.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    That's extremely anecdotal, and I have experience in the other direction. I don't tip if service is terrible, I give over if it's great. I don't have numbers, but I'd assume people who have awful service will more likely tip less or none.

ronnier 7y ago

I think the biggest problem I have with tipping is something I never hear people talk about -- it forces us to pay at the end instead of upfront. Usually the process goes like this: 0: sit, bring water, give order, wait for food 1: eat 2: wait for the waiter to notice we are done. This can take a long time. 3: they want to pre clean the table, at which we say we are done, bring the check please 4: they drop off the check, if you are lucky, you can hand the card to them then, 5: If not, wait for them to come back to pick up your credit card 6: wait some unknown amount of time for them to bring your card back so you can sign and leave a tip It's so much easier to pay up front and leave the second you are ready. Sometimes that ritual at the end takes longer than it takes me to eat my food.

vocatus_gate 7y ago
I typically request my check immediately upon receiving the food. That way I can leave whenever I'm ready and not sit around waiting.
snuxoll 7y ago
They’re not perfect, but every time I dine at Red Robin I like having the little kiosk at the table so I can pay when I’m ready instead of waiting for the check, the waiter to grab my card, etc. It’s a nice solution when eating with a group that is likely to order additional drinks, etc. over the course of a meal too.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cpeterso 7y ago
Paying at the end of the meal allows you to order additional drinks or desserts after your initial order.
everdrive 7y ago
It's the introvert's bane. I'm done being at the restaurant, but I can't leave when I choose to.
- 7y ago

S_A_P 7y ago

In the scenario you describe, I would agree. However, that isn't really a tip. If a service worker provides great service, the option to compensate them for their services should be allowed.(and the inverse for terrible service). A tip should never go to the business, and if the business is collecting it, it should only go to the tip pool to pay the supporting staff as well.

imgabe 7y ago
I agree it's not really a tip, which should be purely optional. Unfortunately it's not treated that way in most of the US, where "expected tips" are allowed to be treated as a part of the employee's compensation. The employer/employee wage negotiation should be completely independent of any tips and the employee should be receiving a wage they would be happy with even if they got 0 tips. Any tips should be in addition to that.
WhompingWindows 7y ago
Why do we have a carve-out for certain industries and not others? I provide services of a different kind but I don't get tips. Literally all the arguments for tips should be applied to all service jobs, which is most jobs these days. How does it make sense to have them for a small subset of the US economy, especially given numerous other countries don't tip that subset.
koala_man 7y ago
Would you feel equally comfortable applying the same concept to your own job?
- S_A_P 7y ago
  yes. But if I didn't feel comfortable, or felt like I was not being adequately compensated, I would change my job. I didnt get into my line of work because it was glamorous and rewarding, I got into it because the pay was good.