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> “Going forward,” DoorDash’s chief executive, Tony Xu, wrote on Twitter on Tuesday night, “we’re changing our model — the new model will ensure that Dashers’ e

by koolba 7y ago

> “Going forward,” DoorDash’s chief executive, Tony Xu, wrote on Twitter on Tuesday night, “we’re changing our model — the new model will ensure that Dashers’ earnings will increase by the exact amount a customer tips on every order. We’ll have specific details in the coming days.” > Under the policy, which the company adopted in 2017, DoorDash would offer a Dasher a guaranteed minimum amount to do a delivery. If a customer tipped, in most cases a tip paid through the app would go to subsidizing DoorDash’s contribution toward the guarantee, rather than increasing the Dasher’s pay. > For example, if DoorDash guaranteed a worker $7 for a delivery and a customer did not tip, DoorDash would directly pay the worker $7. If the customer tipped $3 via the app, DoorDash would directly pay the worker only $4, then add on the $3 tip so that the worker would still get only $7. And this is one more reason why I have and will not ever leave a digital tip. Yes I know how tipping aggregates for wait staff (and I think that’s stupid...) but this is different. These are independent contractors paid to do a job. If they agree to do it for $X then that should come out of the pocket of the company hiring them. Any tip is over the top. I hope they (DoorDash) get sued by their customers for deception, lose in court, and a precedent gets set to end this nonsense.

paulgb 7y ago
> I hope they (DoorDash) get sued by their customers for deception, lose in court, and a precedent gets set to end this nonsense. Unfortunately, this will never happen, because their terms of service includes a binding arbitration clause. (Some of us noticed in time to opt out, but surely not the critical mass needed for a class action.)
- User23 7y ago
  On the other hand it might be straight up wage theft, which is a criminal matter. Californian drivers should file a claim with the Department of Industrial Relations: https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/howtofilewageclaim.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/howtofilewageclaim.htm
- elliekelly 7y ago
  If you managed to opt out then find an attorney to file a class action. Force DoorDash to make the case that you don’t have enough people to get the class certified, don’t do the hard part for them by just assuming it.
ben_jones 7y ago
Postmates opens a tipping modal after a delivery that CANNOT BE CLOSED without inputting a tip and clicking submit. You literally have to type 0.00 and click submit to continue to use the app. I grew up in a strong tipping household (both parents worked service jobs) and usually tip very highly, but everyone should have the right not to tip if they don't want to (with no shaming or prodding) and companies should not subsidize their operational costs by dark patterning customers into tipping.... grr. At the same time I hypocritically am a power user of many "gig economy" apps like uber, ubereats, postmates, etc. so I am contributing to the problem more than most.
- rhino369 7y ago
  I don't mind tipping, but if I'm paying the delivery guy myself, then what the hell is postmates charging me a delivery fee for? I have no idea what I'm paying for and who gets what. It's confusing. So i've been just tipping 3 bucks.
- altmind 7y ago
  and lyft tipping dialog does not allow to enter fraction of a dollar. that's all pretty annoying when you have specific rule to tip specific % of the bill and can not do that.
- forgtpasswd 7y ago
  I simply don't understand tipping before service. I have had multiple occasions where the delivery is either delayed, food items missing, delivery guy calling me and asking me to walk up to him/her because he/she doesn't want to deal with parking etc. But, still expected norm is to pay a tip in advance and hope for good service. And, in case you had a bad experience, well you rewarded the service with a tip in advance anyway.
  - TheAceOfHearts 7y ago
    It's been a while since I last used their service, but I think they allow you to modify your tip after the delivery has been made.
jessriedel 7y ago
I don't know how what the actual agreement was, but couldn't this be very reasonably structured as a form of insurance/derivative? Like, if I'm a pizza delivery guy, I have some expected stream of tips with a variance. If the total tips I receive in a year is usually in the range $300 - $1000, it may be that I'd much rather have a guaranteed $500 than take the risk, so I might buy insurance from a 3rd party (doesn't have to be my employer), who pays me $500 in exchange for the rights to my tips. This doesn't seem immoral/deceptive to me, and is probably financial equivalent to the DoorDash model.
- maxerickson 7y ago
  Depends on whether the delivery person has access to the information about the tips and whether they can opt out. If they don't see the different payouts that come with different customer tips and they can't opt out, it's not very equivalent.
  - jessriedel 7y ago
    I agree this is potentially relevant, thanks!
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    Why does it depend on whether the delivery person can opt out of tip-sharing? Those are contractual terms just like any other contractual terms.
    - maxerickson 7y ago
      It matters for the comparison to a financial product. It if is a mandatory term of employment, it isn't comparable to a financial product.
dawnerd 7y ago
> Yes I know how tipping aggregates for wait staff Quite a few states require wait staff/others to be paid the full minimum wage before tips: https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
sbr464 7y ago
Just a nit, I’m curious how they can guarantee full payout ($7/$7) without mentioning merchant processing fees? Does the company pay those or is it implied that $7 on full payout would actually be $6.80 after fees? I couldn’t see it being sustainable to absorb the extra fee, but if it is withheld, it seems misleading to not mention it. (Technically, this question could apply to the tipping industry as a whole)
- snuxoll 7y ago
  DoorDash has surcharges on top of surcharges to cover their costs, and frequently mark up menu price as well. They can eat $0.20.
  - asark 7y ago
    I received some huge % off an order from them, recently, and tried the service for the first and last time. I had to hunt to find a place to order from that wasn't absurdly expensive even with the discount. Menu prices were significantly higher than real menu prices in most cases, hiding the actual cost of the service, which did have a fee on top of that, and making it so instead of the delivery cost kinda flattening out the more you order like it does with, say, normal pizza delivery, it got higher and higher the more you ordered.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]

by koolba 7y ago

paulgb 7y ago

> I hope they (DoorDash) get sued by their customers for deception, lose in court, and a precedent gets set to end this nonsense. Unfortunately, this will never happen, because their terms of service includes a binding arbitration clause. (Some of us noticed in time to opt out, but surely not the critical mass needed for a class action.)

User23 7y ago
On the other hand it might be straight up wage theft, which is a criminal matter. Californian drivers should file a claim with the Department of Industrial Relations: https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/howtofilewageclaim.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/howtofilewageclaim.htm
elliekelly 7y ago
If you managed to opt out then find an attorney to file a class action. Force DoorDash to make the case that you don’t have enough people to get the class certified, don’t do the hard part for them by just assuming it.

ben_jones 7y ago

Postmates opens a tipping modal after a delivery that CANNOT BE CLOSED without inputting a tip and clicking submit. You literally have to type 0.00 and click submit to continue to use the app. I grew up in a strong tipping household (both parents worked service jobs) and usually tip very highly, but everyone should have the right not to tip if they don't want to (with no shaming or prodding) and companies should not subsidize their operational costs by dark patterning customers into tipping.... grr. At the same time I hypocritically am a power user of many "gig economy" apps like uber, ubereats, postmates, etc. so I am contributing to the problem more than most.

rhino369 7y ago
I don't mind tipping, but if I'm paying the delivery guy myself, then what the hell is postmates charging me a delivery fee for? I have no idea what I'm paying for and who gets what. It's confusing. So i've been just tipping 3 bucks.
altmind 7y ago
and lyft tipping dialog does not allow to enter fraction of a dollar. that's all pretty annoying when you have specific rule to tip specific % of the bill and can not do that.
forgtpasswd 7y ago
I simply don't understand tipping before service. I have had multiple occasions where the delivery is either delayed, food items missing, delivery guy calling me and asking me to walk up to him/her because he/she doesn't want to deal with parking etc. But, still expected norm is to pay a tip in advance and hope for good service. And, in case you had a bad experience, well you rewarded the service with a tip in advance anyway.
- TheAceOfHearts 7y ago
  It's been a while since I last used their service, but I think they allow you to modify your tip after the delivery has been made.

jessriedel 7y ago

I don't know how what the actual agreement was, but couldn't this be very reasonably structured as a form of insurance/derivative? Like, if I'm a pizza delivery guy, I have some expected stream of tips with a variance. If the total tips I receive in a year is usually in the range $300 - $1000, it may be that I'd much rather have a guaranteed $500 than take the risk, so I might buy insurance from a 3rd party (doesn't have to be my employer), who pays me $500 in exchange for the rights to my tips. This doesn't seem immoral/deceptive to me, and is probably financial equivalent to the DoorDash model.

maxerickson 7y ago
Depends on whether the delivery person has access to the information about the tips and whether they can opt out. If they don't see the different payouts that come with different customer tips and they can't opt out, it's not very equivalent.
- jessriedel 7y ago
  I agree this is potentially relevant, thanks!
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  Why does it depend on whether the delivery person can opt out of tip-sharing? Those are contractual terms just like any other contractual terms.
  - maxerickson 7y ago
    It matters for the comparison to a financial product. It if is a mandatory term of employment, it isn't comparable to a financial product.

dawnerd 7y ago

> Yes I know how tipping aggregates for wait staff Quite a few states require wait staff/others to be paid the full minimum wage before tips: https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

sbr464 7y ago

Just a nit, I’m curious how they can guarantee full payout ($7/$7) without mentioning merchant processing fees? Does the company pay those or is it implied that $7 on full payout would actually be $6.80 after fees? I couldn’t see it being sustainable to absorb the extra fee, but if it is withheld, it seems misleading to not mention it. (Technically, this question could apply to the tipping industry as a whole)

snuxoll 7y ago
DoorDash has surcharges on top of surcharges to cover their costs, and frequently mark up menu price as well. They can eat $0.20.
- asark 7y ago
  I received some huge % off an order from them, recently, and tried the service for the first and last time. I had to hunt to find a place to order from that wasn't absurdly expensive even with the discount. Menu prices were significantly higher than real menu prices in most cases, hiding the actual cost of the service, which did have a fee on top of that, and making it so instead of the delivery cost kinda flattening out the more you order like it does with, say, normal pizza delivery, it got higher and higher the more you ordered.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]