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I'm not a cyclist, but I want to be. I don't bike because doing so is way too dangerous with the number of drivers who are paying extremely close attention to t

I'm not a cyclist, but I want to be. I don't bike because doing so is way too dangerous with the number of drivers who are paying extremely close attention to their phones and not to driving. And yeah, some drivers are rude too. I think the most dangerous time to be a cyclist or pedestrian is right now. Smartphones are ubiquitous, distracted-driving enforcement is very weak (non-existent in my area), and self-driving is alpha quality.

TaylorAlexander 7y ago
You can always mountain bike!
chubot 7y ago
There's some truth to that, particularly the point about phones, but FWIW most cities have drastically increased the number and quality of bike lanes in the last 10 years. SF is a completely different experience for bikes than it was 5 years ago, and 10 years before that it was even more different. Ditto for NYC. You can ride up and down Manhattan in big separate big lanes very quickly. It's obviously a personal choice, but I think cycling is a safe choice now. When I started 10+ years ago I would sometimes get off the road when conditions/traffic looked dangerous, and you should always keep that option in your back pocket. (i.e. don't insist that 100% of the route has to be bikable.) But I don't feel the need to do that very much now. The exception is when there's unusual traffic and no bike lane. It's even safer now that there are more cyclists on the road. Drivers do take some time to get used to cyclists.
- seltzered_ 7y ago
  I think the anecdote applies for some cities committing to Vision Zero plans - for example NYC has data showing fatalities decreasing (page 13: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/visionzero/downloads/pdf/vision-zero-year-5-report.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/visionzero/downloads/pdf/vision-... ), though injuries might be the same or increasing ( https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/02/04/bloody-january-cyclist-injuries-and-fatalities-soared-last-month/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/02/04/bloody-january-cyclis... ) But it isn't perfect - SF fwiw has had more pedestrian fatalities this year though they've had reductions in the prior couple years ( https://www.visionzerosf.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/06.2019Fatalities_JuneSummaryMemo.pdf https://www.visionzerosf.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/06.2... ) Also average vehicle miles travelled in the US is up ( https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA/ https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA/ ), and so are nationwide pedestrian fatalities: https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/01/23/the-bible-belt-should-really-be-called-the-carnage-corset-for-pedestrians/ https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/01/23/the-bible-belt-should... Ride-hailing usage over transit may be part of the problem: https://steps.ucdavis.edu/new-research-ride-hailing-impacts-travel-behavior/ https://steps.ucdavis.edu/new-research-ride-hailing-impacts-... ) .
bsmith 7y ago
I agree that it's dangerous, but I love biking too much not to – usually just as a commuter. I always just assume every driver has either: 1) not seen me and is going to accidentally kill me, or 2) seen me and is going to intentionally try to kill me. Joking aside, if you learn how to assert yourself on the road, take a lane when you need to, and pay attention to what potentially threatening vehicles are up to, I think you can drastically reduce the chances that you are involved in a harmful accident. Always wear a helmet, use really bright lights at night, don't ride on sidewalks, and all that jazz, too.
- greedo 7y ago
  On my commute, if I try to "take a lane..." I'll end up as bug splatter on the grill of a 2 ton car. The only safe way to ride to work is either using the bikepaths (which don't typically follow roads so take 3x as long, or ride on the sidewalk.
  - ljf 7y ago
    I agree that taking the lane can be difficult and I can only imagine in USA how much harder this is. Here in the UK the number of times I've had people squeeze by me at speed, rather then waiting to overtake safely - but I do find it happened far far less once I got out the gutter and into the road.
cujo 7y ago
I could be wrong, but I believe the statistics show you're much more likely to be killed in that car than on a bike.
Symmetry 7y ago
From what I've heard about the studies done, you're still liable to live longer with the extra exercise from biking to work even given the increased odds of being killed in traffic.

TaylorAlexander 7y ago

You can always mountain bike!

chubot 7y ago

There's some truth to that, particularly the point about phones, but FWIW most cities have drastically increased the number and quality of bike lanes in the last 10 years. SF is a completely different experience for bikes than it was 5 years ago, and 10 years before that it was even more different. Ditto for NYC. You can ride up and down Manhattan in big separate big lanes very quickly. It's obviously a personal choice, but I think cycling is a safe choice now. When I started 10+ years ago I would sometimes get off the road when conditions/traffic looked dangerous, and you should always keep that option in your back pocket. (i.e. don't insist that 100% of the route has to be bikable.) But I don't feel the need to do that very much now. The exception is when there's unusual traffic and no bike lane. It's even safer now that there are more cyclists on the road. Drivers do take some time to get used to cyclists.

seltzered_ 7y ago
I think the anecdote applies for some cities committing to Vision Zero plans - for example NYC has data showing fatalities decreasing (page 13: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/visionzero/downloads/pdf/vision-zero-year-5-report.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/visionzero/downloads/pdf/vision-... ), though injuries might be the same or increasing ( https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/02/04/bloody-january-cyclist-injuries-and-fatalities-soared-last-month/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/02/04/bloody-january-cyclis... ) But it isn't perfect - SF fwiw has had more pedestrian fatalities this year though they've had reductions in the prior couple years ( https://www.visionzerosf.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/06.2019Fatalities_JuneSummaryMemo.pdf https://www.visionzerosf.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/06.2... ) Also average vehicle miles travelled in the US is up ( https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA/ https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA/ ), and so are nationwide pedestrian fatalities: https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/01/23/the-bible-belt-should-really-be-called-the-carnage-corset-for-pedestrians/ https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/01/23/the-bible-belt-should... Ride-hailing usage over transit may be part of the problem: https://steps.ucdavis.edu/new-research-ride-hailing-impacts-travel-behavior/ https://steps.ucdavis.edu/new-research-ride-hailing-impacts-... ) .

bsmith 7y ago

I agree that it's dangerous, but I love biking too much not to – usually just as a commuter. I always just assume every driver has either: 1) not seen me and is going to accidentally kill me, or 2) seen me and is going to intentionally try to kill me. Joking aside, if you learn how to assert yourself on the road, take a lane when you need to, and pay attention to what potentially threatening vehicles are up to, I think you can drastically reduce the chances that you are involved in a harmful accident. Always wear a helmet, use really bright lights at night, don't ride on sidewalks, and all that jazz, too.

greedo 7y ago
On my commute, if I try to "take a lane..." I'll end up as bug splatter on the grill of a 2 ton car. The only safe way to ride to work is either using the bikepaths (which don't typically follow roads so take 3x as long, or ride on the sidewalk.
- ljf 7y ago
  I agree that taking the lane can be difficult and I can only imagine in USA how much harder this is. Here in the UK the number of times I've had people squeeze by me at speed, rather then waiting to overtake safely - but I do find it happened far far less once I got out the gutter and into the road.

cujo 7y ago

I could be wrong, but I believe the statistics show you're much more likely to be killed in that car than on a bike.

Symmetry 7y ago

From what I've heard about the studies done, you're still liable to live longer with the extra exercise from biking to work even given the increased odds of being killed in traffic.