3 ms·

If I tell a child that 2 + 2 = 4, and show them four blocks in groups of two, and have them draw pictures demonstrating that 2+2=4, and sing songs about 2+2=4,

If I tell a child that 2 + 2 = 4, and show them four blocks in groups of two, and have them draw pictures demonstrating that 2+2=4, and sing songs about 2+2=4, and yet they persist in believing that 2+2=5, is that my failure? The tech community has repeatedly and thoroughly explained the impossibility of secure backdoors, but it is apparently a more difficult thing to grasp than 2+2=4, especially when one does not wish to grasp it.

wool_gather 7y ago
> especially when one does not wish to grasp it. This is the key point. Borrowing from Upton Sinclair, It is difficult to get an authoritarian government functionary to understand something, when his pursuit of power depends on his not understanding it.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
The way I see it, the general population didn't pay attention[0], and the legislators see this as a problem of colour. What they want is a back door that opens only to people bearing keys of the right colour, and you can't get them to understand that the concept of colour doesn't make sense in the world of bits, for the reasons outlined in [1]. -- [0] - They never do - they don't care, and it's hard to argue why should they care especially about this, over a million other urgent things. Media being saturated with outrage-inducing crap doesn't help push through the noise either. [1] - https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23
yibg 7y ago
If you are making an argument for something and people aren't convinced, who's issue is that? The tech community wants the general population to be against installing backdoors. If people aren't convinced or don't care, we can take a couple of stances: 1) well, people just are too dumb / don't care enough / stubborn, we've done all we can and it is what it is 2) the message isn't getting through, let's try something different
- pwinnski 7y ago
  We have been trying different things since at least the 1980s and the Clipper chip debacle. At _some_ point, this quits being a failure of the tech community. _Some_ people simply are not teachable, because they refuse to listen. No "something different" is going to convince someone of something they don't want to believe. P.S. You didn't say "issue" before, you said "failure." That it's an issue is indisputable. Assigning blame seems counter-productive at best.

wool_gather 7y ago

> especially when one does not wish to grasp it. This is the key point. Borrowing from Upton Sinclair, It is difficult to get an authoritarian government functionary to understand something, when his pursuit of power depends on his not understanding it.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

The way I see it, the general population didn't pay attention[0], and the legislators see this as a problem of colour. What they want is a back door that opens only to people bearing keys of the right colour, and you can't get them to understand that the concept of colour doesn't make sense in the world of bits, for the reasons outlined in [1]. -- [0] - They never do - they don't care, and it's hard to argue why should they care especially about this, over a million other urgent things. Media being saturated with outrage-inducing crap doesn't help push through the noise either. [1] - https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23

yibg 7y ago

If you are making an argument for something and people aren't convinced, who's issue is that? The tech community wants the general population to be against installing backdoors. If people aren't convinced or don't care, we can take a couple of stances: 1) well, people just are too dumb / don't care enough / stubborn, we've done all we can and it is what it is 2) the message isn't getting through, let's try something different

pwinnski 7y ago
We have been trying different things since at least the 1980s and the Clipper chip debacle. At _some_ point, this quits being a failure of the tech community. _Some_ people simply are not teachable, because they refuse to listen. No "something different" is going to convince someone of something they don't want to believe. P.S. You didn't say "issue" before, you said "failure." That it's an issue is indisputable. Assigning blame seems counter-productive at best.