7 ms·

We don't let margarine be called butter. Why is it suddenly ok/desirable to let corporate interests randomly assign words to highly processed* foods? Today yo

We don't let margarine be called butter. Why is it suddenly ok/desirable to let corporate interests randomly assign words to highly processed* foods? Today you think its a great thing that these magic mystery pastes can lie to other people about their contents? Those other people are dumb so it's OK to lie to them about the contents of their burgers? Tomorrow? Oh we let words not have meaning because we wanted people to eat more plants....now the word chickpeas can mean anything because... oooops. Create unique product names that aren't lies. Let people seek them out because they taste good and they are better for them. * I've worked hard to get rid of highly processed food and I'm highly skeptical of adding back these highly processed industrial pastes that vegetarian startups are pushing.

dehrmann 7y ago
> corporate interests...highly processed Using phrases like that might pander to a certain crowd, but it doesn't help your argument. Personally, I'm less likely to trust someone who uses phrases like that because they lack nuance and signal that they're not really here for a constructive discussion.
- WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
  I'm sorry are these not corporate interests? Are these not highly processed foods? Is it difficult for you to accept that because you want others to not eat meat?
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    > Are these not highly processed foods? Is a McDonalds hamburger not?
    - WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
      Your response is suggesting that because we have very bad practices at McDonalds we should allow/accelerate them? Do you think we should eat and promote highly processed foods?
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        My response is suggesting that if McDonalds can call highly processed food a "burger", your claim that it's the level of processing that matters is clearly not the case.
        WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
        As I said in other comments - """I also object to Taco Bell being able to call their products even "meat" to be quite honest, I think we should change that."""
      - moate 7y ago
        Cool Strawman Bro! McDonalds is allowed to call their extremely processed foods "burgers". The contents of their "burger" and the contents of 80/20 beef-only patties marketed as "burger patties" at the store are not the same. The point is, "burger" doesn't mean what you're trying to imply it means. It's a loose term for a type of sandwich at best. Saying patties intended to be used for "burgers" can't be marketed as "burgers" is equivalent to saying that "sandwiches" made with <ingredient of your choice> aren't really "sandwiches" because they don't contain the contents that the Earle of Sandwich included in his concoction hundreds of years ago.
        WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
        Because you didn't seem to get it - I think its a travesty that McDonald and Taco Bell are allowed to do what they do to hamburger and are still allowed to sell it at all. Full Stop. The "Veggie" in "Veggie Burger" is a highly processed industrial food paste that has nothing to do with chopping up some chickpeas and garlic and eating it on flatbread. Look at the ingredient lists and read up on all the steps the make to fool you into thinking it has the mouth feel, tast etc of meat. None of those steps are about making the base ingredients healthier for you. They leech nutrients/phytonutrients/fiber at every manipulation. Grinding peanuts and making peanut butter? Hey that's ok with me. This is making terrible food paste and using virtue signalling to market it.
hombre_fatal 7y ago
Your post history shows that you do this a lot. Just wanted to let you know: > Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
  Thank you, I'll watch that.
- billylindeman 7y ago
  Look out for the Capslock police. What a weird policy.
chabes 7y ago
> We don't let margarine be called butter. What about “peanut butter”?
- WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
  What about Almond Milk? First I'd say its in long use and common understanding. Second you can make both of them at home. Third I'm really broadly objecting to highly processed food pastes being labeled as "burger" or X. I also object to Taco Bell being able to call their products even "meat" to be quite honest, I think we should change that.
moate 7y ago
Cool slippery slope bro! Margarine =/= butter. These are words with very specific meanings that everyone has agreed on. Burger =/= beef. "Burger" is, generally, a style of sandwich. "Turkey Burger" is fine. "Pork burger" is fine. The assumption is that, unmodified, it means that it contains beef. However, everyone in the US understand that a "black bean burger" doesn't contain beef and instead contains black beans. Both sides of this fight are just "corporate interests randomly assigning words to foods". The beef industry wants "purity" and the veggie industry wants "common sense". Let's not pretend this is actually about the consumer being protected, because isn't. It's about how to market products.
- WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
  Burger is ground meat not a sandwich? "Veggie" in "Veggie Burger" is what exactly? Tell us in detail please.
  - moate 7y ago
    I make mine, at home not in a sinister lab, from black beans, garlic, onion, bell peppers, bread crumbs, egg, salt, pepper, cumin and olive oil. I take the onions, peppers and garlic and go put them in a food processors to chop them (oh god, the processing!) to approximately fine dice because I'm usually making them in bulk and don't feel like cutting by hand. If you prefer a thicker cut to the veggies, go ahead and cut with a knife. I then take that out, and put half of the black beans into the food processor (ahh, terror, horror!) until they reach a paste consistency. I mix the other veggies, spices and remaining black beans into this. I then eggs to bind and bread crumbs as needed to get it to hold shape. If I take it too far, I'll add some olive oil to loosen things up. These aren't super great on a grill, and I prefer to pan sear or cook them on a griddle (which I find to be the best to get some really great maillard reactions going on for flavor) and top with a slice of cheese and arugula and put it on a bun. My point is, "burger" is a style preparation, not a specific thing. "Soup" "Sandwich" "Taco" "Breakfast". These are vague shapes, not specific D.S.O.P terms. So is "burger", at least in the US currently. I'm a former chef my dude. I'm invested and have a lot of opinions on food. You want to fight on the behalf of the beef lobby, that's fine. But this is all about protecting corporate interests from other competing corporate interests. This isn't about protecting consumers. It's Bad Actors fighting Bad Actors. Don't even get me started on that "organic" nonsense...

dehrmann 7y ago

> corporate interests...highly processed Using phrases like that might pander to a certain crowd, but it doesn't help your argument. Personally, I'm less likely to trust someone who uses phrases like that because they lack nuance and signal that they're not really here for a constructive discussion.

WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
I'm sorry are these not corporate interests? Are these not highly processed foods? Is it difficult for you to accept that because you want others to not eat meat?
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > Are these not highly processed foods? Is a McDonalds hamburger not?
  - WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
    Your response is suggesting that because we have very bad practices at McDonalds we should allow/accelerate them? Do you think we should eat and promote highly processed foods?
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      My response is suggesting that if McDonalds can call highly processed food a "burger", your claim that it's the level of processing that matters is clearly not the case.
      - WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
        As I said in other comments - """I also object to Taco Bell being able to call their products even "meat" to be quite honest, I think we should change that."""
    - moate 7y ago
      Cool Strawman Bro! McDonalds is allowed to call their extremely processed foods "burgers". The contents of their "burger" and the contents of 80/20 beef-only patties marketed as "burger patties" at the store are not the same. The point is, "burger" doesn't mean what you're trying to imply it means. It's a loose term for a type of sandwich at best. Saying patties intended to be used for "burgers" can't be marketed as "burgers" is equivalent to saying that "sandwiches" made with <ingredient of your choice> aren't really "sandwiches" because they don't contain the contents that the Earle of Sandwich included in his concoction hundreds of years ago.
      - WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
        Because you didn't seem to get it - I think its a travesty that McDonald and Taco Bell are allowed to do what they do to hamburger and are still allowed to sell it at all. Full Stop. The "Veggie" in "Veggie Burger" is a highly processed industrial food paste that has nothing to do with chopping up some chickpeas and garlic and eating it on flatbread. Look at the ingredient lists and read up on all the steps the make to fool you into thinking it has the mouth feel, tast etc of meat. None of those steps are about making the base ingredients healthier for you. They leech nutrients/phytonutrients/fiber at every manipulation. Grinding peanuts and making peanut butter? Hey that's ok with me. This is making terrible food paste and using virtue signalling to market it.

hombre_fatal 7y ago

Your post history shows that you do this a lot. Just wanted to let you know: > Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
Thank you, I'll watch that.
billylindeman 7y ago
Look out for the Capslock police. What a weird policy.

chabes 7y ago

> We don't let margarine be called butter. What about “peanut butter”?

WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
What about Almond Milk? First I'd say its in long use and common understanding. Second you can make both of them at home. Third I'm really broadly objecting to highly processed food pastes being labeled as "burger" or X. I also object to Taco Bell being able to call their products even "meat" to be quite honest, I think we should change that.

moate 7y ago

Cool slippery slope bro! Margarine =/= butter. These are words with very specific meanings that everyone has agreed on. Burger =/= beef. "Burger" is, generally, a style of sandwich. "Turkey Burger" is fine. "Pork burger" is fine. The assumption is that, unmodified, it means that it contains beef. However, everyone in the US understand that a "black bean burger" doesn't contain beef and instead contains black beans. Both sides of this fight are just "corporate interests randomly assigning words to foods". The beef industry wants "purity" and the veggie industry wants "common sense". Let's not pretend this is actually about the consumer being protected, because isn't. It's about how to market products.

WhatIsDukkha 7y ago
Burger is ground meat not a sandwich? "Veggie" in "Veggie Burger" is what exactly? Tell us in detail please.
- moate 7y ago
  I make mine, at home not in a sinister lab, from black beans, garlic, onion, bell peppers, bread crumbs, egg, salt, pepper, cumin and olive oil. I take the onions, peppers and garlic and go put them in a food processors to chop them (oh god, the processing!) to approximately fine dice because I'm usually making them in bulk and don't feel like cutting by hand. If you prefer a thicker cut to the veggies, go ahead and cut with a knife. I then take that out, and put half of the black beans into the food processor (ahh, terror, horror!) until they reach a paste consistency. I mix the other veggies, spices and remaining black beans into this. I then eggs to bind and bread crumbs as needed to get it to hold shape. If I take it too far, I'll add some olive oil to loosen things up. These aren't super great on a grill, and I prefer to pan sear or cook them on a griddle (which I find to be the best to get some really great maillard reactions going on for flavor) and top with a slice of cheese and arugula and put it on a bun. My point is, "burger" is a style preparation, not a specific thing. "Soup" "Sandwich" "Taco" "Breakfast". These are vague shapes, not specific D.S.O.P terms. So is "burger", at least in the US currently. I'm a former chef my dude. I'm invested and have a lot of opinions on food. You want to fight on the behalf of the beef lobby, that's fine. But this is all about protecting corporate interests from other competing corporate interests. This isn't about protecting consumers. It's Bad Actors fighting Bad Actors. Don't even get me started on that "organic" nonsense...