6 ms·
I'm one of Loopt's co-founders. Loopt uses Microsoft's stack (the reasons why are off topic here), and was licensing Windows Server, SQL Server, and Visual Stu
by kogir 16y ago
I'm one of Loopt's co-founders. Loopt uses Microsoft's stack (the reasons why are off topic here), and was licensing Windows Server, SQL Server, and Visual Studio through the SPLA program before BizSpark was available. We joined BizSpark right when it launched.
BizSpark consists primarily of two things: (1) a one-on-one contact to provide advice, to arrange partnership opportunities (marketing, etc), and to provide introductions to the Microsoft product teams as needed; and (2) free software licenses (which you get to keep at the end of the program). Loopt has also received other benefits, like access to their compatibility labs, conference passes, etc.
With BizSpark, Microsoft is confident enough in the quality of their offering that there's no commitment. You chose to use as much or as little of what is offered as you want, and there is zero pressure. We make use of various open source technologies[1]. It's not a problem. Also, at the end of the program they offer an extremely generous graduation offer[2] with no financial obligation.
After that, Microsoft's volume licensing is reasonable[3], the tools are well documented, and everything works as expected. Their stack is predictable, consistent, and dependable. If you want to be able to focus on your product instead of the tools you're using[4], then the Microsoft stack is great. Note: It's cheaper to have your tools work than to hire someone on salary to maintain and debug them.
[1] Ubuntu, PostgreSQL, MySQL, Ruby, Rails, etc.
[2] http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx I can't discuss the details of Loopt's custom offer (we exceed the standard usage by a fair amount), but we'll be much better off after BizSpark than we were before. Microsoft has been very generous.
[3] See the SPLA program: http://www.microsoft.com/hosting/en/us/licensing/splabenefits.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/hosting/en/us/licensing/splabenefit...
[4] Not that they aren't extensible if needed. Back before ASP.Net MVC and WCF (and before Thrift, Protocol Buffers, and Rails) we wrote a ton of our own custom web and RPC tooling. ASP.Net is actually really nice but gets a bad rap because of web forms (which you don't have to use, and have improved substantially in the latest release). IIS 7 rocks as a transport agnostic application server, and can do MSMQ, TCP, UDP and more (it's extensible) in addition to HTTP.
- chunkbot 16y agoWhy does Loopt use a Microsoft stack?
- kogir 16y agoA compelling discussion of my reasons won't fit in a comment. Perhaps I'll do a blog post in January. If you want to know more before then feel free to email (in my profile).
- chunkbot 16y agoI'll await the blog post; I can't be the only one who's interested the know the motivations. And for the record, I agree that it's the practical results that matter (for those who would criticize an OS choice). We're doing "embarrassing" things with what amounts to an EAV/graph database built on top of MySQL (with all the vertices in-memory), but we're incredibly happy with our results.
- johns 16y agoAre you guys BizSpark or BizSpark One?
- kogir 16y agoWe just graduated from BizSpark One, but are still in BizSpark for one more year.
- cabalamat 16y ago> the tools are well documented, and everything works as expected. Their stack is predictable, consistent, and dependable. If you want to be able to focus on your product instead of the tools you're using[4], then the Microsoft stack is great. Note: It's cheaper to have your tools work than to hire someone on salary to maintain and debug them. I don't doubt all you say is true. But consider someone (like me for example) with a Unixy skill-set. I know PHP, MySQL, PhpMyAdmin, Python, Django, Unix text processing tools, etc, and while the MS equivalents may well be very good, when you factor in my time learning to use them, I'm not going to be as productive. One of the reasons I know all these tools is that getting started is simply sudo apt-get install whatever and I'm off. If MS want a higher uptake of their developer tools, they might make them as easy to get at as that. I understand that with BizSpark I can use Microsoft's tools without paying much money. But there's a bureaucratic process to getting on the BizSpark program, which I'm guessing takes days or weeks to achieve. By comparison, sudo apt-get install takes seconds. And that's why I'm using Unix-based tools in my startup.
- allwein 16y agoYou've created a nice little strawman there. Microsoft offers free versions of their developer tools with the various Visual Studio Express editions and Sql Server Express. If you're looking into more enterprise-y software, Microsoft offers free time-limited versions of pretty much all their server and productivity software.
- jbooth 16y agoIt's not a straw-man. To get that free version, I've got to go to MSDN, register, jump through a bunch of hoops, download some way-too-big installer, run a long installation process, reboot a couple times.. I mean, not that I would ever think of pirating software from a giant corporation that wouldn't even notice the lost revenue, but bittorrent is only very slightly more work than all of that. apt-get is a whole different plane of ease. It adds about a 3-second fixed-cost to trying a new tool.
- HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago