3 ms·

Anything above high 60's is really a pipe dream in this current market.

hobofan 7y ago
If you are looking at SMBs that treat you as a "IT guy", sure. If you are looking at more "modern" tech companies in Berlin or well-funded startups it's definitely possible. The last 3 job offers I had were in the 90-100k range, for a "senior" position (~6 years of experience) in Berlin.
- odiroot 7y ago
  This is definitely an outlier and not the norm. Look at Glassdoor and LinkedIn. Maybe Zalando offers more but few would want to work there.
  - hobofan 7y ago
    Just from the top of my head, you could probably earn well at: Zalando, HERE, Mozilla, EyeEm, Blacklane, MongoDB, Zeitgold, Talon.one, Infarm (just raised a juicy funding round) + a boatload of blockchain startups On top of that, a lot of the bigger SV startups have satellite offices in Berlin.
    - odiroot 7y ago
      > EyeEm Yep, personally know them. But they're in Köln last I remember. Many of the companies you mentioned (not gonna named not to get sued) have reportedly terrible working culture and/or awful recruitment process (applied to most of them). So maybe the money is compensating.
      - hobofan 7y ago
        > terrible working culture Might be true for some of them, but for the ones on the list where I know people that work there, it sounded pretty good. In the end good working culture is one of many axis to optimize on.
ascar 7y ago
Hard truth: It also heavily depends on how good you are. The salaries talked about are usually the top 10% maybe 20%. Like people throwing around Facebook and Amazon salaries. They only employ a small percentage of devs. That leaves at least 80% that earn considerably less and 50% that earn below the mean.
- tomp 7y ago
  Quick math lesson: 50% earn below the median. For salaries (in general, I've no idea what it's like for developers in particular) the right-hand tail (high performers with extremely high salaries) and the lack of left-hand tail (no salaries are negative) shifts the mean (arithmetic mean a.k.a. average) upwards so it's actually (usually) going to be more than 50% of population earning below the mean.
  - ascar 7y ago
    Well, it's more of a linguistic/english lesson. I meant the median and just forgot that average and mean are synonyms. But thanks for pointing that out. I actually edited out exactly the same argument that you wrote, because I (and you) have nothing to actually back it up. Counterexample: if 60% of people earn very close above the average and 35% earn 30% below average and 5% earn (on average) double the total average, then the majority earns above average even tho the right hand-tail gets high. This is just one possible scenario that is not even completely unrealistic. Also remember that most crazy incomes are not salaries.
kayoone 7y ago
Its just from my personal experience, but i know a lot of people in the 70k+ range at different companies, all senior though. We also interview a lot and a considerable amount of candidates that get offered high sixties go somewhere else where they got a better offer.

If you are looking at SMBs that treat you as a "IT guy", sure. If you are looking at more "modern" tech companies in Berlin or well-funded startups it's definitely possible. The last 3 job offers I had were in the 90-100k range, for a "senior" position (~6 years of experience) in Berlin.

odiroot 7y ago
This is definitely an outlier and not the norm. Look at Glassdoor and LinkedIn. Maybe Zalando offers more but few would want to work there.
- hobofan 7y ago
  Just from the top of my head, you could probably earn well at: Zalando, HERE, Mozilla, EyeEm, Blacklane, MongoDB, Zeitgold, Talon.one, Infarm (just raised a juicy funding round) + a boatload of blockchain startups On top of that, a lot of the bigger SV startups have satellite offices in Berlin.
  - odiroot 7y ago
    > EyeEm Yep, personally know them. But they're in Köln last I remember. Many of the companies you mentioned (not gonna named not to get sued) have reportedly terrible working culture and/or awful recruitment process (applied to most of them). So maybe the money is compensating.
    - hobofan 7y ago
      > terrible working culture Might be true for some of them, but for the ones on the list where I know people that work there, it sounded pretty good. In the end good working culture is one of many axis to optimize on.

ascar 7y ago

Hard truth: It also heavily depends on how good you are. The salaries talked about are usually the top 10% maybe 20%. Like people throwing around Facebook and Amazon salaries. They only employ a small percentage of devs. That leaves at least 80% that earn considerably less and 50% that earn below the mean.

tomp 7y ago
Quick math lesson: 50% earn below the median. For salaries (in general, I've no idea what it's like for developers in particular) the right-hand tail (high performers with extremely high salaries) and the lack of left-hand tail (no salaries are negative) shifts the mean (arithmetic mean a.k.a. average) upwards so it's actually (usually) going to be more than 50% of population earning below the mean.
- ascar 7y ago
  Well, it's more of a linguistic/english lesson. I meant the median and just forgot that average and mean are synonyms. But thanks for pointing that out. I actually edited out exactly the same argument that you wrote, because I (and you) have nothing to actually back it up. Counterexample: if 60% of people earn very close above the average and 35% earn 30% below average and 5% earn (on average) double the total average, then the majority earns above average even tho the right hand-tail gets high. This is just one possible scenario that is not even completely unrealistic. Also remember that most crazy incomes are not salaries.

kayoone 7y ago

Its just from my personal experience, but i know a lot of people in the 70k+ range at different companies, all senior though. We also interview a lot and a considerable amount of candidates that get offered high sixties go somewhere else where they got a better offer.