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Go and visit a forum where embedded images are allowed and tell me that there is any sort of "optimum" discussion over there. In the end what happens is people

Go and visit a forum where embedded images are allowed and tell me that there is any sort of "optimum" discussion over there. In the end what happens is people use text overlays in the IMAGES in order to reply to each other. Since you edited your response to mention the birthday card: Yea - on the one hand you can leave a boring "Happy Birthday" message with lots of glitter to make it memorable. Or you can make the message memorable.

SifJar 7y ago
An internet forum (presumably we're referring to a public forum here) is a very different communication medium than email (especially when used in a professional context)
- u801e 7y ago
  > An internet forum (presumably we're referring to a public forum here) is a very different communication medium than email Not really. Take a look at any email discussion like the Linux kernel mailing list or the git mailing list. Same thing with newsgroups (usenet).
  - jamespo 7y ago
    Newsgroups aren't exactly vibrant any more, sadly.
  - Brometheus 7y ago
    Yes really. Take a look at the mails I use to discuss things with my customers.
  - arbitrage 7y ago
    > Same thing with newsgroups (usenet). good lord, how old are you?
    - darkpuma 7y ago
      I was participating in rec.games.roguelike.development until 2011 or so. Some of those communities lasted a lot longer than most would expect.
- darkpuma 7y ago
  I've seen professionally-oriented PHP forums and they are no better than any casual-interest oriented PHP forum. Tons of visual clutter with all kinds of rectangles nested inside each other all over the screen with little apparent purpose for any of them. Join dates of users are given higher visual precedence to the date a comment was made (why is the join date of a user even visible on a discussion page at all?? That's pointless clutter!) 90% of users attaching signatures to every comment they leave with the signature body being longer than whatever remark they left, and often being filled with shitty animated gifs that look like they were stolen from somebody's geocities page. It's a trash medium. Fundamentally flawed. Trying to fix typical PHP forums is like trying to polish a turd.
shriek 7y ago
I'd argue that that's a shortcoming of the platform and not the medium in that context. Having the ability and abusing it are two completely different things.
athenot 7y ago
Some forums actually work a lot better WITH embedded images. To pick just one example[1]: a lawn forum where people will try to ask a question, or share an experience, and go back and forth trying to describe the details. A photo cuts that pain out and enriches the conversation. [1] https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11802 https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11802
- gowld 7y ago
  That's a great example because besides the excellent use of pictures, it features terrible use of text -- the subject is "Going reel low"
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jolmg 7y ago
> In the end what happens is people use text overlays in the IMAGES in order to reply to each other. Oh my god. At my work, HR likes their email super-formatted to a degree that's not portably achievable with even hand-written HTML. The solution someone once came up with? Their email consists of a single embedded image the size of a typical monitor. All text, all information is in that image. They also have a requirement for everyone to use their standard format for "professional" signatures in their own mail. Of course, those are also embedded images. In a discussion, with each reply of each person, the corresponding signature image is included. I wish I could tell them that email only allows for plain text, but of course that's not the case.
- zhte415 7y ago
  Given it's HR, could a case not be made for accessibility which an embedded image doesn't allow.. they might be responsive if talking in HR terms and priorities.
dwild 7y ago
> In the end what happens is people use text overlays in the IMAGES in order to reply to each other. That doesn't sound optimum use of image at all. > Or you can make the message memorable. And use image that make it even more memorable at the same time. Text and images are tools, both can be misused, but that doesn't means that they are bad. Remember SMS text? Works for sure, clearly not optimal, yet text is pretty good to make message memorable. I can explain in a thousand word an issue on a page, but you can also just share a screenshot. That's an optimum use of images. Sure you could just write "see screenshot #1", "see screenshot #2", etc.. but I'm pretty sure you'll agree that it's not optimum.
- zepolen 7y ago
  Optimum for me would be links along with client integration to open said links inline. Links for example in a plaintext email are clickable - not because of HTML, but client integration. The same can be done on image links. That way the big screenshots don't destroy the flow of text like in http://example.jpg http://example.jpg [+] (open inline) and instead information is condensed and digested in the most optimum way possible.
gowld 7y ago
Rebuttal: Yahoo! Answers is text only. It's not text or images that make forum content good or bad or memorable. It's good people doing good work. And different people work well in different media. Saying that text is the only legitimate form of media is both ignorant and disrespectful.

SifJar 7y ago

An internet forum (presumably we're referring to a public forum here) is a very different communication medium than email (especially when used in a professional context)

u801e 7y ago
> An internet forum (presumably we're referring to a public forum here) is a very different communication medium than email Not really. Take a look at any email discussion like the Linux kernel mailing list or the git mailing list. Same thing with newsgroups (usenet).
- jamespo 7y ago
  Newsgroups aren't exactly vibrant any more, sadly.
- Brometheus 7y ago
  Yes really. Take a look at the mails I use to discuss things with my customers.
- arbitrage 7y ago
  > Same thing with newsgroups (usenet). good lord, how old are you?
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    I was participating in rec.games.roguelike.development until 2011 or so. Some of those communities lasted a lot longer than most would expect.
darkpuma 7y ago
I've seen professionally-oriented PHP forums and they are no better than any casual-interest oriented PHP forum. Tons of visual clutter with all kinds of rectangles nested inside each other all over the screen with little apparent purpose for any of them. Join dates of users are given higher visual precedence to the date a comment was made (why is the join date of a user even visible on a discussion page at all?? That's pointless clutter!) 90% of users attaching signatures to every comment they leave with the signature body being longer than whatever remark they left, and often being filled with shitty animated gifs that look like they were stolen from somebody's geocities page. It's a trash medium. Fundamentally flawed. Trying to fix typical PHP forums is like trying to polish a turd.

shriek 7y ago

I'd argue that that's a shortcoming of the platform and not the medium in that context. Having the ability and abusing it are two completely different things.

athenot 7y ago

Some forums actually work a lot better WITH embedded images. To pick just one example[1]: a lawn forum where people will try to ask a question, or share an experience, and go back and forth trying to describe the details. A photo cuts that pain out and enriches the conversation. [1] https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11802 https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11802

gowld 7y ago
That's a great example because besides the excellent use of pictures, it features terrible use of text -- the subject is "Going reel low"

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jolmg 7y ago

> In the end what happens is people use text overlays in the IMAGES in order to reply to each other. Oh my god. At my work, HR likes their email super-formatted to a degree that's not portably achievable with even hand-written HTML. The solution someone once came up with? Their email consists of a single embedded image the size of a typical monitor. All text, all information is in that image. They also have a requirement for everyone to use their standard format for "professional" signatures in their own mail. Of course, those are also embedded images. In a discussion, with each reply of each person, the corresponding signature image is included. I wish I could tell them that email only allows for plain text, but of course that's not the case.

zhte415 7y ago
Given it's HR, could a case not be made for accessibility which an embedded image doesn't allow.. they might be responsive if talking in HR terms and priorities.

dwild 7y ago

> In the end what happens is people use text overlays in the IMAGES in order to reply to each other. That doesn't sound optimum use of image at all. > Or you can make the message memorable. And use image that make it even more memorable at the same time. Text and images are tools, both can be misused, but that doesn't means that they are bad. Remember SMS text? Works for sure, clearly not optimal, yet text is pretty good to make message memorable. I can explain in a thousand word an issue on a page, but you can also just share a screenshot. That's an optimum use of images. Sure you could just write "see screenshot #1", "see screenshot #2", etc.. but I'm pretty sure you'll agree that it's not optimum.

zepolen 7y ago
Optimum for me would be links along with client integration to open said links inline. Links for example in a plaintext email are clickable - not because of HTML, but client integration. The same can be done on image links. That way the big screenshots don't destroy the flow of text like in http://example.jpg http://example.jpg [+] (open inline) and instead information is condensed and digested in the most optimum way possible.

gowld 7y ago

Rebuttal: Yahoo! Answers is text only. It's not text or images that make forum content good or bad or memorable. It's good people doing good work. And different people work well in different media. Saying that text is the only legitimate form of media is both ignorant and disrespectful.