5 ms·

I'm reminded of Socrates quote in "The Great Dialogues of Plato". "Because in your talk you do nothing but lay commands on people, like young society beauties

by maeon3 16y ago

I'm reminded of Socrates quote in "The Great Dialogues of Plato". "Because in your talk you do nothing but lay commands on people, like young society beauties who are regular tyrants as long as they are young and good-looking. And perhaps you have found me out already; I can't resist the handsome!" The notion of young beautiful women in our society as having less attention than certain less attractive ones is completely wrong. Socrates was calling these beautiful woman tyrants because all men around them were showering them with whatever they wanted. Nothing has changed in the last 2000 years. The only hope for men is to join arms and completely ignore women, but this will never happen, until then they will call the shots until they get old, then they will be married to you, and then they will still call the shots. http://books.google.com/books?id=WMbS85Ijg2oC&printsec=frontcover&dq=great+dialogues+of+plato&source=bl&ots=hN5JL2x40o&sig=I1x9ngBntD0Y5JC19a4Jhp2zyFc&hl=en&ei=BP4bTYnAB4aBlAeh54jPCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&sqi=2&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=young%20and%20good-looking&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=WMbS85Ijg2oC&printsec=f...

jacquesm 16y ago
> Beautiful women have the world by the balls, when I meet one of these women I remind them that they will get old and be in for a rude awakening. That makes zero sense to me. Everybody gets old, beautiful women too, and for all of us it is a rude awakening. The relative difference between being young and old and being beautiful and average is smaller for 'beautiful or average' than for being young or old. Do you berate the young too for 'being in for a rude awakening'? Whatever you've got use your body to the best of its abilities, you'll never be able to recover time that you've lost and don't begrudge others the bodies they've got, after all you could have been even worse off, possibly lots worse. It's just a giant lottery. To berate people for attributes they did not choose is just another form of jealousy. edit: parent has removed the quoted passage
- aik 16y ago
  It is a rude awakening for all of us, but I think the point is that one who heavily depends on looks has a much tougher time than someone not dependent on looks. Naturally not every beautiful woman has a heavy dependence on looks, but in general people tend to flaunt whatever extra-ordinary attribute they have, be it a natural and short-lived or learned and life-long.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    I'm pretty sure that those that are beautiful are well aware of how fleeting it is, I just can't see it is a justification to put them down like that. Should people that are born in to money discard it so they can live an average life in order not to offend? Should those that are beautiful spend their lives in burlap sacks lest they give offense to those less fortunate (Burka's?). People don't 'depend' on their good looks, people simply use the tools that they've got and beauty in a society so focused on beauty is a very powerful tool. The interesting thing here is that everybody else makes it in to a powerful thing, not the person having it, they just use the power granted.
    - mdda 16y ago
      It is well known that people rate the opinions of those that are taller/prettier higher than others. So, to adjust for that natural bias it might make sense to treat attractive people's opinions with greater scrutiny. But maybe attractive people have better minds too? That's a possibility - however (IMHO) outward attractiveness is more to do with genetic fitness (in the procreation sense), than creative fitness (in the meme generation sense). The evolution of ideas is whether the action is now... (at least that's what I'd like to believe)
    - sliverstorm 16y ago
      I can see wanting to 'get back' at them if they are really abusing their beauty. Though chances are most men who want to 'get back', including the original parent, were just jilted suitors.
    - wallflower 16y ago
      > Should those that are beautiful spend their lives in burlap sacks lest they give offense to those less fortunate (Burka's?). My brother-in-law's sister was in Heathrow airport. She was in the bathroom with a woman who was initially dressed in a burka. She says that the woman she saw was was one of the most beautiful women she had ever seen in her lifetime. Beauty can hide - if it hides, is it still beauty? Or not as political?
    - aik 16y ago
araneae 16y ago
In the example of this post, the male is perceived as being higher status because he has a desirable woman with him. The woman herself in this position isn't holding anyone by the balls. So the relationship is tenuous at best.

by maeon3 16y ago

jacquesm 16y ago

> Beautiful women have the world by the balls, when I meet one of these women I remind them that they will get old and be in for a rude awakening. That makes zero sense to me. Everybody gets old, beautiful women too, and for all of us it is a rude awakening. The relative difference between being young and old and being beautiful and average is smaller for 'beautiful or average' than for being young or old. Do you berate the young too for 'being in for a rude awakening'? Whatever you've got use your body to the best of its abilities, you'll never be able to recover time that you've lost and don't begrudge others the bodies they've got, after all you could have been even worse off, possibly lots worse. It's just a giant lottery. To berate people for attributes they did not choose is just another form of jealousy. edit: parent has removed the quoted passage

aik 16y ago
It is a rude awakening for all of us, but I think the point is that one who heavily depends on looks has a much tougher time than someone not dependent on looks. Naturally not every beautiful woman has a heavy dependence on looks, but in general people tend to flaunt whatever extra-ordinary attribute they have, be it a natural and short-lived or learned and life-long.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  I'm pretty sure that those that are beautiful are well aware of how fleeting it is, I just can't see it is a justification to put them down like that. Should people that are born in to money discard it so they can live an average life in order not to offend? Should those that are beautiful spend their lives in burlap sacks lest they give offense to those less fortunate (Burka's?). People don't 'depend' on their good looks, people simply use the tools that they've got and beauty in a society so focused on beauty is a very powerful tool. The interesting thing here is that everybody else makes it in to a powerful thing, not the person having it, they just use the power granted.
  - mdda 16y ago
    It is well known that people rate the opinions of those that are taller/prettier higher than others. So, to adjust for that natural bias it might make sense to treat attractive people's opinions with greater scrutiny. But maybe attractive people have better minds too? That's a possibility - however (IMHO) outward attractiveness is more to do with genetic fitness (in the procreation sense), than creative fitness (in the meme generation sense). The evolution of ideas is whether the action is now... (at least that's what I'd like to believe)
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    I can see wanting to 'get back' at them if they are really abusing their beauty. Though chances are most men who want to 'get back', including the original parent, were just jilted suitors.
  - wallflower 16y ago
    > Should those that are beautiful spend their lives in burlap sacks lest they give offense to those less fortunate (Burka's?). My brother-in-law's sister was in Heathrow airport. She was in the bathroom with a woman who was initially dressed in a burka. She says that the woman she saw was was one of the most beautiful women she had ever seen in her lifetime. Beauty can hide - if it hides, is it still beauty? Or not as political?
  - aik 16y ago

araneae 16y ago

In the example of this post, the male is perceived as being higher status because he has a desirable woman with him. The woman herself in this position isn't holding anyone by the balls. So the relationship is tenuous at best.