3 ms·

FORTRAN is immensely better than most its critics are aware, and it god a lot of solutions right. Already since around 1950 it had the format specifications:

by acqq 7y ago

FORTRAN is immensely better than most its critics are aware, and it god a lot of solutions right. Already since around 1950 it had the format specifications: https://www.fortran.com/FortranForTheIBM704.pdf https://www.fortran.com/FortranForTheIBM704.pdf quite similar to those used later in C (since around 1970) and even Python (since around 1990) and Java... since version 5.0 in 2004. Moreover, the format specifications were a part of the language, not "just a string that was traditionally not checked" as in C.

wglb 7y ago
We should sit down and chat about FORTRAN II with its three-number if statements. I spent a lot of years in that particular village, and was sufficiently frustrated with its limitations that it drove me to a career in writing compilers. In addition to the language you note stealing the format idea, you need to include Lisp.
- acqq 7y ago
  > was sufficiently frustrated with its limitations that it drove me to a career in writing compilers. I'm genuinely interested! > FORTRAN II with its three-number if statements The IBM FORTRAN for 704 (from 1956) had them already, as in the link already posted. Yes, all these labels were definitely annoying, the researchers did work on ALGOL already two years later. FORTRAN itself also improved over time, but for most of the decades the sources were indeed ugly compared to the printed ALGOL in the papers (the implementations were often something else) and all the languages inspired by that. The problem with the numerical labels was recognized even in 1958. Sadly the first standard that allowed not writing them was Fortran 8x (later know as 90): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0010465587901627 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0010465587... "Since 1979, the Fortran standardization committee, X3J3, has been labouring over a draft for the next version of the standard. Its initial intention of publishing this draft in 1982 was hopelessly optimistic, and at best it may be ready this year" (1987) It eventually became ISO in 1991. At that time, on the microcomputers, Turbo Pascal was already 8 years old. It was the fastest to develop and really convenient. But if you wanted really heavy numerics, you also had to buy additional hardware and... probably use FORTRAN. http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer/documentation/microway/number_smasher860.pdf http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer/documentation/microway/...
  - wglb 7y ago
    So back in the heyday of Fortran II, it did work on smaller computers. One key frustration I had with Fortran II was that you couldn't put expressions in the elements of a DO loop. Nobody could tell me why. So I bought a book on compilers https://www.amazon.com/compiler-generator-William-M-McKeeman/dp/B007EUHZ2U https://www.amazon.com/compiler-generator-William-M-McKeeman... and dove in. I ported got the XPL compiler to run on our SIGMA 5 and actually used it in some production jobs. Then, I got a job at Sycor on a team of 3 writing a compiler for a derivative of PL/M targeting the 8085. The compiler was written in Bliss 36. Was serious fun and had major impact on how they developed their software. I have long left Fortran behind. I have many other languages under my belt now, and no desire to revisit.
    - acqq 7y ago
      Thanks! Especially thanks for mentioning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDS_Sigma_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDS_Sigma_series and Sycor. I didn't know about these up to now.

by acqq 7y ago

wglb 7y ago

We should sit down and chat about FORTRAN II with its three-number if statements. I spent a lot of years in that particular village, and was sufficiently frustrated with its limitations that it drove me to a career in writing compilers. In addition to the language you note stealing the format idea, you need to include Lisp.

acqq 7y ago
> was sufficiently frustrated with its limitations that it drove me to a career in writing compilers. I'm genuinely interested! > FORTRAN II with its three-number if statements The IBM FORTRAN for 704 (from 1956) had them already, as in the link already posted. Yes, all these labels were definitely annoying, the researchers did work on ALGOL already two years later. FORTRAN itself also improved over time, but for most of the decades the sources were indeed ugly compared to the printed ALGOL in the papers (the implementations were often something else) and all the languages inspired by that. The problem with the numerical labels was recognized even in 1958. Sadly the first standard that allowed not writing them was Fortran 8x (later know as 90): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0010465587901627 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0010465587... "Since 1979, the Fortran standardization committee, X3J3, has been labouring over a draft for the next version of the standard. Its initial intention of publishing this draft in 1982 was hopelessly optimistic, and at best it may be ready this year" (1987) It eventually became ISO in 1991. At that time, on the microcomputers, Turbo Pascal was already 8 years old. It was the fastest to develop and really convenient. But if you wanted really heavy numerics, you also had to buy additional hardware and... probably use FORTRAN. http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer/documentation/microway/number_smasher860.pdf http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer/documentation/microway/...
- wglb 7y ago
  So back in the heyday of Fortran II, it did work on smaller computers. One key frustration I had with Fortran II was that you couldn't put expressions in the elements of a DO loop. Nobody could tell me why. So I bought a book on compilers https://www.amazon.com/compiler-generator-William-M-McKeeman/dp/B007EUHZ2U https://www.amazon.com/compiler-generator-William-M-McKeeman... and dove in. I ported got the XPL compiler to run on our SIGMA 5 and actually used it in some production jobs. Then, I got a job at Sycor on a team of 3 writing a compiler for a derivative of PL/M targeting the 8085. The compiler was written in Bliss 36. Was serious fun and had major impact on how they developed their software. I have long left Fortran behind. I have many other languages under my belt now, and no desire to revisit.
  - acqq 7y ago
    Thanks! Especially thanks for mentioning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDS_Sigma_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDS_Sigma_series and Sycor. I didn't know about these up to now.