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For any regular non-technical user locking down most Android phones (presumably some phones come with hardened settings and possibly with no Google services) an

For any regular non-technical user locking down most Android phones (presumably some phones come with hardened settings and possibly with no Google services) and keeping the data away for Google is a huge challenge. The default settings are almost always very permissive, you have to dig down through settings to disable everything, and a lot of stuff isn't very obvious for anyone who doesn't expect such behavior. Oh even when the WiFi is off it will still scan for nearby SSIDs to get your position? https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DCN-Google-Data-Collection-Paper.pdf https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DC...

lern_too_spel 7y ago
It is much less of a challenge than keeping your data away from Apple on iOS as my previous comment demonstrated. > Oh even when the WiFi is off it will still scan for nearby SSIDs to get your position? Again, this is opt in even on Google-flavored Android devices. There is no digging through settings required — the opt in checkbox appears in the setup flow. On iOS, there is nothing you can do to stop your device from doing this.
- millstone 7y ago
  You don't have to do anything to get decent privacy on iOS because it comes like that out of the box. Do you honestly believe that Google has less data on Android users, compared to Apple for iOS users? > Again, this is opt in even on Google-flavored Android devices No, it's opt-out. For example see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2uSGGl0LWc&t=3m41s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2uSGGl0LWc&t=3m41s - setup on a Pixel and all the location stuff is on by default. > On iOS, there is nothing you can do to stop your device from doing this Oh, how do I turn this on for iOS? When I turn off WiFi it says that "improved location accuracy require Wi-Fi".
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    > You don't have to do anything to get decent privacy on iOS because it comes like that out of the box. It's amazing that somebody who works in tech would fall for that marketing when it is so obviously a lie. Consider that iOS sends every GPS location ever requested by your phone to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. Likewise, you can't stop Apple from knowing about every app you install on your phone or every address link you click on. If you want to develop apps for your own device, you have to hand over card details. "Out of the box," iOS tells Apple every phone number you SMS and when. And worst of all, if you're Chinese, you have no privacy at all on an iOS device. > Do you honestly believe that Google has less data on Android users, compared to Apple for iOS users? For users who care about privacy, absolutely. For users who care about usability, Google has more data but provides a more useful experience. That's a trade-off that is possible to make on Android. On iOS, you are stuck with poor privacy and worse usability. > No, it's opt-out. You are correct. That is still much better than not being able to opt out of sending every GPS lookup to Apple at all.
- close04 7y ago
  > Again, this is opt in It's not and it's not even suggested that it exists as a feature on any of the Android devices I ever owned or played with. The dialog for setting up location has no option that absolutely turns off every method that is directly used to determine/infer location. Ok, this is also a user education problem but Google certainly isn't doing anything to suggest the "precise location" won't just provide a precise location to the user. And most people take the common sense approach and assume turning off WiFi will actually turn it off. Instead not only are they still tracked, they lose battery life too.

lern_too_spel 7y ago

It is much less of a challenge than keeping your data away from Apple on iOS as my previous comment demonstrated. > Oh even when the WiFi is off it will still scan for nearby SSIDs to get your position? Again, this is opt in even on Google-flavored Android devices. There is no digging through settings required — the opt in checkbox appears in the setup flow. On iOS, there is nothing you can do to stop your device from doing this.

millstone 7y ago
You don't have to do anything to get decent privacy on iOS because it comes like that out of the box. Do you honestly believe that Google has less data on Android users, compared to Apple for iOS users? > Again, this is opt in even on Google-flavored Android devices No, it's opt-out. For example see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2uSGGl0LWc&t=3m41s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2uSGGl0LWc&t=3m41s - setup on a Pixel and all the location stuff is on by default. > On iOS, there is nothing you can do to stop your device from doing this Oh, how do I turn this on for iOS? When I turn off WiFi it says that "improved location accuracy require Wi-Fi".
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  > You don't have to do anything to get decent privacy on iOS because it comes like that out of the box. It's amazing that somebody who works in tech would fall for that marketing when it is so obviously a lie. Consider that iOS sends every GPS location ever requested by your phone to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. Likewise, you can't stop Apple from knowing about every app you install on your phone or every address link you click on. If you want to develop apps for your own device, you have to hand over card details. "Out of the box," iOS tells Apple every phone number you SMS and when. And worst of all, if you're Chinese, you have no privacy at all on an iOS device. > Do you honestly believe that Google has less data on Android users, compared to Apple for iOS users? For users who care about privacy, absolutely. For users who care about usability, Google has more data but provides a more useful experience. That's a trade-off that is possible to make on Android. On iOS, you are stuck with poor privacy and worse usability. > No, it's opt-out. You are correct. That is still much better than not being able to opt out of sending every GPS lookup to Apple at all.
close04 7y ago
> Again, this is opt in It's not and it's not even suggested that it exists as a feature on any of the Android devices I ever owned or played with. The dialog for setting up location has no option that absolutely turns off every method that is directly used to determine/infer location. Ok, this is also a user education problem but Google certainly isn't doing anything to suggest the "precise location" won't just provide a precise location to the user. And most people take the common sense approach and assume turning off WiFi will actually turn it off. Instead not only are they still tracked, they lose battery life too.