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Google requires all apps that are on Google Play to use Firebase, which is baked into the OS, for notifications. Developers might make apps available on F-Droid

Google requires all apps that are on Google Play to use Firebase, which is baked into the OS, for notifications. Developers might make apps available on F-Droid or through individual download, but most of the time, those are just the same versions available on Google Play and configured to use Firebase. The problem is that while Android is OS, most apps use functions and OS-level API's available that are only available through the Google Play Services application. This is a good thing for people who have phones from manufacturers who don't update the OS's, but it's a bad thing if you don't want Google Play Services to run. You don't want Google Play Services (or Google Mobile Services) to run because if it's running, it's talking to Google (even if you never configured an account) in order to use their hosted API's like location detection based on nearby Wifi AP's, push notifications, malware scanning, etc. Whenever it connects to those hosted API's, it POST's a unique device ID. This is harder than it sounds. The current versions of the stock keyboard, clock, calendar, contacts manager, and even phone dialer all have Google Play Services as a dependency.

lern_too_spel 7y ago
> Google requires all apps that are on Google Play to use Firebase, which is baked into the OS, for notifications. Only for apps on the Play Store. This is much less restrictive than iOS, which requires you to use APNS for notifications without any workarounds. Also, Firebase is not "built into the OS" and doesn't exist at all in AOSP. > The current versions of the stock keyboard, clock, calendar, contacts manager, and even phone dialer all have Google Play Services as a dependency. Those aren't "stock." Those are Google's apps. Many devices don't even use Google's by default. The AOSP implementations don't use Google Play Services at all. It is trivial to install replacements on even Google-flavored Android devices that don't use Google Play Services. Compare to iOS. Apple knows every app you ever downloaded, and there is nothing you can do about it. Every time you click on an address link, it sends the address to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. Any time an app looks up your GPS location, that location is sent to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. If you want to write apps for your own device, you need to give card details to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. That is what data collection built pervasively into the OS actually looks like
- millstone 7y ago
  What nonsense. Google's panoptic data collection is not excused by AOSP, side loading, or vendor shovelware, all of which are completely irrelevant. Google's detailed picture of the daily physical movements of everyone, cross referenced with their email, web searches, site visits, and who knows what else, is not somehow worse than Apple requiring a credit card to develop for the app store. Apple Maps doesn't know who you are. Siri doesn't know who you are. iMessage is E2E encrypted. Locations are anonymous. If you actually cared about this stuff, you'd be applauding Apple.
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    You've fallen for a simple marketing campaign. What Google does with data has nothing to do with what data Android collects out of the box, which I have demonstrated (and you have not refuted) is less than what iOS collects. You can just as easily send your location, email, and search data to Google on iOS as you can on Android. The difference is that on Android, it is possible (even easy) to choose not to send data to Google or Apple. > If you actually cared about this stuff, you'd be applauding Apple. If you actually cared about privacy, you would be damning Apple for handing over the iCloud keys for Chinese users' data to the PRC allowing the PRC to implement dragnet surveillance on iCloud documents, iCloud email, iMessages, etc. to find and disappear dissidents. This is worse than anything Google or even Facebook has done by a stupendous margin. > iMessage is E2E encrypted. Since Apple controls the keyserver, Apple has the ability to wiretap any iMessage conversation (https://blog.quarkslab.com/imessage-privacy.html https://blog.quarkslab.com/imessage-privacy.html). Since China controls the keyserver inside the great firewall, China has the ability to wiretap any conversation that occurs with at least one user in China. Compare to Android, where you can set Signal as your default SMS handler. One pretends to support privacy, while the other actually does. > Apple Maps doesn't know who you are. But it does know where you are and every address link you click on. From there, you are very easy to deanonymize. Compare to Android, which lets you run fully offline mapping applications and set them as the default address handler. Apple's apps are systematically both less useful than alternatives and less private than other alternatives. The only thing that saves them is slick marketing.

lern_too_spel 7y ago

> Google requires all apps that are on Google Play to use Firebase, which is baked into the OS, for notifications. Only for apps on the Play Store. This is much less restrictive than iOS, which requires you to use APNS for notifications without any workarounds. Also, Firebase is not "built into the OS" and doesn't exist at all in AOSP. > The current versions of the stock keyboard, clock, calendar, contacts manager, and even phone dialer all have Google Play Services as a dependency. Those aren't "stock." Those are Google's apps. Many devices don't even use Google's by default. The AOSP implementations don't use Google Play Services at all. It is trivial to install replacements on even Google-flavored Android devices that don't use Google Play Services. Compare to iOS. Apple knows every app you ever downloaded, and there is nothing you can do about it. Every time you click on an address link, it sends the address to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. Any time an app looks up your GPS location, that location is sent to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. If you want to write apps for your own device, you need to give card details to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. That is what data collection built pervasively into the OS actually looks like

millstone 7y ago
What nonsense. Google's panoptic data collection is not excused by AOSP, side loading, or vendor shovelware, all of which are completely irrelevant. Google's detailed picture of the daily physical movements of everyone, cross referenced with their email, web searches, site visits, and who knows what else, is not somehow worse than Apple requiring a credit card to develop for the app store. Apple Maps doesn't know who you are. Siri doesn't know who you are. iMessage is E2E encrypted. Locations are anonymous. If you actually cared about this stuff, you'd be applauding Apple.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  You've fallen for a simple marketing campaign. What Google does with data has nothing to do with what data Android collects out of the box, which I have demonstrated (and you have not refuted) is less than what iOS collects. You can just as easily send your location, email, and search data to Google on iOS as you can on Android. The difference is that on Android, it is possible (even easy) to choose not to send data to Google or Apple. > If you actually cared about this stuff, you'd be applauding Apple. If you actually cared about privacy, you would be damning Apple for handing over the iCloud keys for Chinese users' data to the PRC allowing the PRC to implement dragnet surveillance on iCloud documents, iCloud email, iMessages, etc. to find and disappear dissidents. This is worse than anything Google or even Facebook has done by a stupendous margin. > iMessage is E2E encrypted. Since Apple controls the keyserver, Apple has the ability to wiretap any iMessage conversation (https://blog.quarkslab.com/imessage-privacy.html https://blog.quarkslab.com/imessage-privacy.html). Since China controls the keyserver inside the great firewall, China has the ability to wiretap any conversation that occurs with at least one user in China. Compare to Android, where you can set Signal as your default SMS handler. One pretends to support privacy, while the other actually does. > Apple Maps doesn't know who you are. But it does know where you are and every address link you click on. From there, you are very easy to deanonymize. Compare to Android, which lets you run fully offline mapping applications and set them as the default address handler. Apple's apps are systematically both less useful than alternatives and less private than other alternatives. The only thing that saves them is slick marketing.