6 ms·

OK Seriously What Is BizSpark?

68 points by robconery 16y ago

vyrotek 16y ago
In short, free MSDN subscriptions for startups. Our company is part of the program and we basically get access to everything for 3 years. We're talking VS 2010, SQL Server, Windows, Azure hours and much more.
- robconery 16y ago
  But it's not free if it's only 3 years - you still have to pay don't you? I'm not arguing the utility of it - I'm wondering if you would have paid anyway - or if the 3 year "loan" made a difference.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    It's not a loan. It's free. At the end of the three years you can keep the software, continue using it, and never pay a dime to Microsoft (actually $100). You can in theory, build Google on it, make $50B over 20 years, and never pay MS a dime, all while using MS software. With that said, if you do want to upgrade to new versions of the software after 3 years, then you'll have to pay for upgrades. But that's like saying that someone giving you a new car for free isn't really free, if they don't give you a new car every year. Or if ATT and Apple give you an iPhone and service free for 3 years, its not really free unless they give you a new iPhone every 3 years (and free ATT service).
    - robconery 16y ago
      I think you might need to go back and read the terms again :). You're given 3 years (for a $100 fee) of what amounts to an MSDN license (which is pretty restrictive) and then you need to pay. If you want to keep the MSDN-type thing (re-upping) you can - but if you've grown, you can't. Which means you have to pop for licenses for VS, Exhange, Sharepoint, Office, SQL, Windows Server, etc. SQL and Windows Server is the big one... especially if you've built Google.
    - robconery 16y ago
      Have a read here (I think this is what you're referring to): http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx Note that if you keep your MSDN license, it doesn't entitle you to use much in production. You can't, for instance, run SQL Server in production using an MSDN license. Nor can you use Exchange and Windows Server. So it's not free :).
      - kenjackson 16y ago
        To quote: "Startups may keep and continue to use, for development and testing purposes, all the software they received as part of their BizSpark MSDN Subscription. In other words, they have perpetual development and test rights to that software." "The BizSpark Graduation Offer allows BizSpark startups to keep, at no charge, all the software they acquired through the BizSpark program" "Under the graduation offer, the MSDN Ultimate licenses that came with BizSpark are perpetual, so startups keep all the tools and platform software they got from the program for development and testing purposes, including Visual Studio and Expression" "Similarly, startups will also have perpetual rights to all of their Windows and SQL Server production licenses" Now your claim may be that BizSpark doesn't supply enough licenses for you, but it is FREE. After BizSpark is done, you never have to pay MS a cent to keep and use the SW acquired in BizSpark. In fact, I didn't realize they'd waived the $100 fee. Like I said, if you want to upgrade or get additional licenses, you have to pay for those. You can build your $50B empire all on BizSpark, although you'll just have to write a very efficient backend to handle the transactions with only a couple of SQL instances, but there is nothing stopping you, but your ingenuity :-)
        johns 16y ago
        From that same page: The BizSpark Graduation Offer assumes a standard production configuration of 4 Windows Server Standard Edition and 2 SQL Server Standard Edition (Proc) which we believe will meet the needs of most startups. For startups who have different or greater needs, the BizSpark team will work with them to build a customized configuration at graduation.
        16y ago
milhous 16y ago
I've heard about BizSpark before. But if I didn't, I would know pretty quickly that ridiculous buzzwords like that could only come from a place like Microsoft.
mikesaraf 16y ago
I'm a co-founder of a little startup project that got accepted in the BizSpark program and I can say it has definitely been a benefit to us and will be to our users when we launch in late January. We're building a web app for a vertical in the attorney space, it's a rails app built completely on an open source stack. Why do we need BizSpark? While we would like for our customers to use our web app exclusively, the reality is the majority of practices run Windows and Office. So we built Exchange and Outlook integration using the tools provided by BizSpark. If we hadn't had access to those tools we still would have built the product, but we wouldn't have Exchange and Outlook support at launch. The benifit for us; We built a product better suited for our customers. The benefit for MS: They have another product on the list of thousands that has custom support and integration with their office suite, their bread and butter. Clearly the biggest benefit for us has been access to thousands in software we otherwise couldn't afford. But we will be looking at the opportunities to network with partners and investors through BizSpark when we're ready. I see it as a win for us and an ever so tiny win (because of our small user base) for Microsoft.
- mindcrime 16y ago
  What kind of conditions do they impose on you as a part of the program? Is there any stuff like "an app built using Bizspark that supports Microsoft office cannot also support OpenOffice / LibreOffice," or "your app can't be open-source?" Etc? Is it just software, or do they provide any sort of assistance with doing the integration with their stuff? I'm curious since I could see a use for Sharepoint integration and even Outlook / Office integration for some of what I'm working on, but I'd still be leery of the whole "it's a trap" thing with Microsoft.
  - rickdangerous1 16y ago
    No conditions at all.
  - mikesaraf 16y ago
    It is basically an open invitation to use their tools where you see fit. Our web app is built on an open source stack. We are writing software to integrate with the Mac (few attorneys use Macs but its growing). There wasn't any weird limitation or requirements to write MS only applications, we couldn't find any catch. There are a couple of ways to get support. First, you're basically getting premium MSDN account access, so you get a limited number of support requests, it gives you one-on-one access to their engineers to get technical help if you need it. Second, there is a general BizSpark contact. We haven't contacted them yet, I suspect its primarily for getting help with the parter & investor networking aspect of it. As far as signing up, go for it! I'd encourage anyone that falls in their guidelines and wants to integrate with any piece of MS software to sign up. (Main guidelines: Your company or startup is less than 3 years old, privately owned, Less then $1M in revenue)
wiseleo 16y ago
We are a bizspark company. It is a great way to get noticed by Microsoft. If you do not already have lots of contacts at high level, this will help. All you can eat software really helps. I develop in C# because my visual studio ultimate edition makes it extremely convenient. I can write code directly as a result of creating a UML model. Bizspark accelerates startups by removing software barriers. We integrate with Exchange and Dynamics CRM, so for us it was an obvious strategy. Bizspark One is like an incubator.
kenjackson 16y ago
Unless you don't plan on your software running on a Windows-based machine, seems like a no-brainer. Regarding MS's lack of self-promotion. They tend to self-promote what they believe and are mum on other stuff. Like WP7 and Azure -- they won't say its the best, but that its a marathon, not a sprint. But with Visual Studio, they'll happily tell you that it is the best. SQL Server, they'll enumerate the scenarios where they're the best. And with Office, they have no problem making the claim that it's the best office productivity platform. While Rob would like more self-promotion... I think its fair to say that if you don't know what your tools are good at and are looking at a company to tell you then BizSpark (or any other program) probably won't help you.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
kogir 16y ago
I'm one of Loopt's co-founders. Loopt uses Microsoft's stack (the reasons why are off topic here), and was licensing Windows Server, SQL Server, and Visual Studio through the SPLA program before BizSpark was available. We joined BizSpark right when it launched. BizSpark consists primarily of two things: (1) a one-on-one contact to provide advice, to arrange partnership opportunities (marketing, etc), and to provide introductions to the Microsoft product teams as needed; and (2) free software licenses (which you get to keep at the end of the program). Loopt has also received other benefits, like access to their compatibility labs, conference passes, etc. With BizSpark, Microsoft is confident enough in the quality of their offering that there's no commitment. You chose to use as much or as little of what is offered as you want, and there is zero pressure. We make use of various open source technologies[1]. It's not a problem. Also, at the end of the program they offer an extremely generous graduation offer[2] with no financial obligation. After that, Microsoft's volume licensing is reasonable[3], the tools are well documented, and everything works as expected. Their stack is predictable, consistent, and dependable. If you want to be able to focus on your product instead of the tools you're using[4], then the Microsoft stack is great. Note: It's cheaper to have your tools work than to hire someone on salary to maintain and debug them. [1] Ubuntu, PostgreSQL, MySQL, Ruby, Rails, etc. [2] http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx I can't discuss the details of Loopt's custom offer (we exceed the standard usage by a fair amount), but we'll be much better off after BizSpark than we were before. Microsoft has been very generous. [3] See the SPLA program: http://www.microsoft.com/hosting/en/us/licensing/splabenefits.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/hosting/en/us/licensing/splabenefit... [4] Not that they aren't extensible if needed. Back before ASP.Net MVC and WCF (and before Thrift, Protocol Buffers, and Rails) we wrote a ton of our own custom web and RPC tooling. ASP.Net is actually really nice but gets a bad rap because of web forms (which you don't have to use, and have improved substantially in the latest release). IIS 7 rocks as a transport agnostic application server, and can do MSMQ, TCP, UDP and more (it's extensible) in addition to HTTP.
- chunkbot 16y ago
  Why does Loopt use a Microsoft stack?
csomar 16y ago
_Believe it or not - I disagree with this. Sort of. Microsoft is almost completely invisible in the Valley. I worked there for ... well pretty much my entire career. That's what I do - startups - and only one of them went with Microsoft tools. And that was back in 1997 when Active Server Pages was all the rage._ This page (http://www.bizspark.com/one/Pages/default.aspx http://www.bizspark.com/one/Pages/default.aspx) tells me otherwise, some hot startups are using MS bizspark. So it's not really invisible in the valley.
- robconery 16y ago
  That page lists a number of startups - sure. It's atomic compared to the startups out there. I do agree - it's impressive to see some of the names on the list and it would be nice to see it grow. All the same, you have to admit that it's rather small.
Jun8 16y ago
I don't care much about Bizspark but I want this guy to write the front-facing text on my startup's web page when the time comes, he's great in summing up the value in few, well-chosen words.
Hoff 16y ago
BizSpark is nothing particularly unusual. Most commercial software vendors have similar programs and analogous offers available to developers, and seemingly most featuring the "for development and testing purposes" restrictions. If you're operating within the particular vendor's realm and particularly developing over a longer horizon, these programs can be reasonable. But these programs are also sticky-traps or "free samples" leading to addictions or vendor lock-ins or whatever analogy you'd prefer. (Which is why they exist; duh.) Once entrenched on (Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, EC2/S3, hosted services, whatever) porting out or switching from development to production use can get costly. Looking forward, consider if the end-users are even particularly going to know or care what software is running under the hood in a few years. While it's a now very successful model, what are the growth trends in three or five years? Between hosting (Azure or slices or otherwise) and virtual machine guests and embedded clients, the operating system and the bag of drivers that it provides is becoming a component of your application, or something you (or somebody else) runs for your customers. Pick your bag of drivers and choose your particular software addiction(s) appropriately. If that's BizSpark, go for it. Just don't get dazzled by the word "FREE!" from any vendor.
iamelgringo 16y ago
My interactions with BizSpark in Silicon Valley have been nothing short of stellar. I organize the Hackers and Founders meetups [1] in the area, and Joel Franusic [2], the BizSpark evangelist for the area is one of the huge reasons that I have nothing but good things to say about BizSpark. Joel is a Perl, *nix hacker with a dash of Lisp mixed in. He's been working startups for years, and he helps organize Super Happy Dev House in Silicon Valley. He joined BizSpark because he thought he could help a broad cross section of startups. Joel doesn't push the Microsoft stack very hard. He's very much a soft sell kind of guy. But, if a startup is interested in working on the Microsoft stack, he's a phenomenal resource. ref: [1] http://www.hackersandfounders.com http://www.hackersandfounders.com [2] http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jf http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jf
nailer 16y ago
I was rejected for Bizspark. As part of a wider product, I develop an Open Source OpenXML module for Python. This requires testing on Office 2007 and 2010, as these apps don't implement the OpenXML spec exactly so there are quirks. Not sure if the rejection was because it was whether the component that touched the MS stack was OSS, whether MS don't realize that Python runs on Windows, whether they don't want people to use OpenXML on other platforms, or some other reason. Weirdly enough, I actually started in IT as a Windows NT 4 MCSE when I was 17. I had a very different view of Microsoft then.
- johns 16y ago
  You should contact jf http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jf http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jf

68 points by robconery 16y ago

In short, free MSDN subscriptions for startups. Our company is part of the program and we basically get access to everything for 3 years. We're talking VS 2010, SQL Server, Windows, Azure hours and much more.

robconery 16y ago
But it's not free if it's only 3 years - you still have to pay don't you? I'm not arguing the utility of it - I'm wondering if you would have paid anyway - or if the 3 year "loan" made a difference.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  It's not a loan. It's free. At the end of the three years you can keep the software, continue using it, and never pay a dime to Microsoft (actually $100). You can in theory, build Google on it, make $50B over 20 years, and never pay MS a dime, all while using MS software. With that said, if you do want to upgrade to new versions of the software after 3 years, then you'll have to pay for upgrades. But that's like saying that someone giving you a new car for free isn't really free, if they don't give you a new car every year. Or if ATT and Apple give you an iPhone and service free for 3 years, its not really free unless they give you a new iPhone every 3 years (and free ATT service).
  - robconery 16y ago
    I think you might need to go back and read the terms again :). You're given 3 years (for a $100 fee) of what amounts to an MSDN license (which is pretty restrictive) and then you need to pay. If you want to keep the MSDN-type thing (re-upping) you can - but if you've grown, you can't. Which means you have to pop for licenses for VS, Exhange, Sharepoint, Office, SQL, Windows Server, etc. SQL and Windows Server is the big one... especially if you've built Google.
  - robconery 16y ago
    Have a read here (I think this is what you're referring to): http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx Note that if you keep your MSDN license, it doesn't entitle you to use much in production. You can't, for instance, run SQL Server in production using an MSDN license. Nor can you use Exchange and Windows Server. So it's not free :).
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      To quote: "Startups may keep and continue to use, for development and testing purposes, all the software they received as part of their BizSpark MSDN Subscription. In other words, they have perpetual development and test rights to that software." "The BizSpark Graduation Offer allows BizSpark startups to keep, at no charge, all the software they acquired through the BizSpark program" "Under the graduation offer, the MSDN Ultimate licenses that came with BizSpark are perpetual, so startups keep all the tools and platform software they got from the program for development and testing purposes, including Visual Studio and Expression" "Similarly, startups will also have perpetual rights to all of their Windows and SQL Server production licenses" Now your claim may be that BizSpark doesn't supply enough licenses for you, but it is FREE. After BizSpark is done, you never have to pay MS a cent to keep and use the SW acquired in BizSpark. In fact, I didn't realize they'd waived the $100 fee. Like I said, if you want to upgrade or get additional licenses, you have to pay for those. You can build your $50B empire all on BizSpark, although you'll just have to write a very efficient backend to handle the transactions with only a couple of SQL instances, but there is nothing stopping you, but your ingenuity :-)
      - johns 16y ago
        From that same page: The BizSpark Graduation Offer assumes a standard production configuration of 4 Windows Server Standard Edition and 2 SQL Server Standard Edition (Proc) which we believe will meet the needs of most startups. For startups who have different or greater needs, the BizSpark team will work with them to build a customized configuration at graduation.
        16y ago

milhous 16y ago

I've heard about BizSpark before. But if I didn't, I would know pretty quickly that ridiculous buzzwords like that could only come from a place like Microsoft.

mikesaraf 16y ago

I'm a co-founder of a little startup project that got accepted in the BizSpark program and I can say it has definitely been a benefit to us and will be to our users when we launch in late January. We're building a web app for a vertical in the attorney space, it's a rails app built completely on an open source stack. Why do we need BizSpark? While we would like for our customers to use our web app exclusively, the reality is the majority of practices run Windows and Office. So we built Exchange and Outlook integration using the tools provided by BizSpark. If we hadn't had access to those tools we still would have built the product, but we wouldn't have Exchange and Outlook support at launch. The benifit for us; We built a product better suited for our customers. The benefit for MS: They have another product on the list of thousands that has custom support and integration with their office suite, their bread and butter. Clearly the biggest benefit for us has been access to thousands in software we otherwise couldn't afford. But we will be looking at the opportunities to network with partners and investors through BizSpark when we're ready. I see it as a win for us and an ever so tiny win (because of our small user base) for Microsoft.

mindcrime 16y ago
What kind of conditions do they impose on you as a part of the program? Is there any stuff like "an app built using Bizspark that supports Microsoft office cannot also support OpenOffice / LibreOffice," or "your app can't be open-source?" Etc? Is it just software, or do they provide any sort of assistance with doing the integration with their stuff? I'm curious since I could see a use for Sharepoint integration and even Outlook / Office integration for some of what I'm working on, but I'd still be leery of the whole "it's a trap" thing with Microsoft.
- rickdangerous1 16y ago
  No conditions at all.
- mikesaraf 16y ago
  It is basically an open invitation to use their tools where you see fit. Our web app is built on an open source stack. We are writing software to integrate with the Mac (few attorneys use Macs but its growing). There wasn't any weird limitation or requirements to write MS only applications, we couldn't find any catch. There are a couple of ways to get support. First, you're basically getting premium MSDN account access, so you get a limited number of support requests, it gives you one-on-one access to their engineers to get technical help if you need it. Second, there is a general BizSpark contact. We haven't contacted them yet, I suspect its primarily for getting help with the parter & investor networking aspect of it. As far as signing up, go for it! I'd encourage anyone that falls in their guidelines and wants to integrate with any piece of MS software to sign up. (Main guidelines: Your company or startup is less than 3 years old, privately owned, Less then $1M in revenue)

wiseleo 16y ago

We are a bizspark company. It is a great way to get noticed by Microsoft. If you do not already have lots of contacts at high level, this will help. All you can eat software really helps. I develop in C# because my visual studio ultimate edition makes it extremely convenient. I can write code directly as a result of creating a UML model. Bizspark accelerates startups by removing software barriers. We integrate with Exchange and Dynamics CRM, so for us it was an obvious strategy. Bizspark One is like an incubator.

kenjackson 16y ago

Unless you don't plan on your software running on a Windows-based machine, seems like a no-brainer. Regarding MS's lack of self-promotion. They tend to self-promote what they believe and are mum on other stuff. Like WP7 and Azure -- they won't say its the best, but that its a marathon, not a sprint. But with Visual Studio, they'll happily tell you that it is the best. SQL Server, they'll enumerate the scenarios where they're the best. And with Office, they have no problem making the claim that it's the best office productivity platform. While Rob would like more self-promotion... I think its fair to say that if you don't know what your tools are good at and are looking at a company to tell you then BizSpark (or any other program) probably won't help you.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

kogir 16y ago

I'm one of Loopt's co-founders. Loopt uses Microsoft's stack (the reasons why are off topic here), and was licensing Windows Server, SQL Server, and Visual Studio through the SPLA program before BizSpark was available. We joined BizSpark right when it launched. BizSpark consists primarily of two things: (1) a one-on-one contact to provide advice, to arrange partnership opportunities (marketing, etc), and to provide introductions to the Microsoft product teams as needed; and (2) free software licenses (which you get to keep at the end of the program). Loopt has also received other benefits, like access to their compatibility labs, conference passes, etc. With BizSpark, Microsoft is confident enough in the quality of their offering that there's no commitment. You chose to use as much or as little of what is offered as you want, and there is zero pressure. We make use of various open source technologies[1]. It's not a problem. Also, at the end of the program they offer an extremely generous graduation offer[2] with no financial obligation. After that, Microsoft's volume licensing is reasonable[3], the tools are well documented, and everything works as expected. Their stack is predictable, consistent, and dependable. If you want to be able to focus on your product instead of the tools you're using[4], then the Microsoft stack is great. Note: It's cheaper to have your tools work than to hire someone on salary to maintain and debug them. [1] Ubuntu, PostgreSQL, MySQL, Ruby, Rails, etc. [2] http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx I can't discuss the details of Loopt's custom offer (we exceed the standard usage by a fair amount), but we'll be much better off after BizSpark than we were before. Microsoft has been very generous. [3] See the SPLA program: http://www.microsoft.com/hosting/en/us/licensing/splabenefits.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/hosting/en/us/licensing/splabenefit... [4] Not that they aren't extensible if needed. Back before ASP.Net MVC and WCF (and before Thrift, Protocol Buffers, and Rails) we wrote a ton of our own custom web and RPC tooling. ASP.Net is actually really nice but gets a bad rap because of web forms (which you don't have to use, and have improved substantially in the latest release). IIS 7 rocks as a transport agnostic application server, and can do MSMQ, TCP, UDP and more (it's extensible) in addition to HTTP.

chunkbot 16y ago
Why does Loopt use a Microsoft stack?

csomar 16y ago

_Believe it or not - I disagree with this. Sort of. Microsoft is almost completely invisible in the Valley. I worked there for ... well pretty much my entire career. That's what I do - startups - and only one of them went with Microsoft tools. And that was back in 1997 when Active Server Pages was all the rage._ This page (http://www.bizspark.com/one/Pages/default.aspx http://www.bizspark.com/one/Pages/default.aspx) tells me otherwise, some hot startups are using MS bizspark. So it's not really invisible in the valley.

robconery 16y ago
That page lists a number of startups - sure. It's atomic compared to the startups out there. I do agree - it's impressive to see some of the names on the list and it would be nice to see it grow. All the same, you have to admit that it's rather small.

Jun8 16y ago

I don't care much about Bizspark but I want this guy to write the front-facing text on my startup's web page when the time comes, he's great in summing up the value in few, well-chosen words.

Hoff 16y ago

BizSpark is nothing particularly unusual. Most commercial software vendors have similar programs and analogous offers available to developers, and seemingly most featuring the "for development and testing purposes" restrictions. If you're operating within the particular vendor's realm and particularly developing over a longer horizon, these programs can be reasonable. But these programs are also sticky-traps or "free samples" leading to addictions or vendor lock-ins or whatever analogy you'd prefer. (Which is why they exist; duh.) Once entrenched on (Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, EC2/S3, hosted services, whatever) porting out or switching from development to production use can get costly. Looking forward, consider if the end-users are even particularly going to know or care what software is running under the hood in a few years. While it's a now very successful model, what are the growth trends in three or five years? Between hosting (Azure or slices or otherwise) and virtual machine guests and embedded clients, the operating system and the bag of drivers that it provides is becoming a component of your application, or something you (or somebody else) runs for your customers. Pick your bag of drivers and choose your particular software addiction(s) appropriately. If that's BizSpark, go for it. Just don't get dazzled by the word "FREE!" from any vendor.

iamelgringo 16y ago

My interactions with BizSpark in Silicon Valley have been nothing short of stellar. I organize the Hackers and Founders meetups [1] in the area, and Joel Franusic [2], the BizSpark evangelist for the area is one of the huge reasons that I have nothing but good things to say about BizSpark. Joel is a Perl, *nix hacker with a dash of Lisp mixed in. He's been working startups for years, and he helps organize Super Happy Dev House in Silicon Valley. He joined BizSpark because he thought he could help a broad cross section of startups. Joel doesn't push the Microsoft stack very hard. He's very much a soft sell kind of guy. But, if a startup is interested in working on the Microsoft stack, he's a phenomenal resource. ref: [1] http://www.hackersandfounders.com http://www.hackersandfounders.com [2] http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jf http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jf

nailer 16y ago

I was rejected for Bizspark. As part of a wider product, I develop an Open Source OpenXML module for Python. This requires testing on Office 2007 and 2010, as these apps don't implement the OpenXML spec exactly so there are quirks. Not sure if the rejection was because it was whether the component that touched the MS stack was OSS, whether MS don't realize that Python runs on Windows, whether they don't want people to use OpenXML on other platforms, or some other reason. Weirdly enough, I actually started in IT as a Windows NT 4 MCSE when I was 17. I had a very different view of Microsoft then.

johns 16y ago
You should contact jf http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jf http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jf