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That doesn't prevent Google from collecting information about you. Even though you don't actively use Google on your Android device, doesn't mean it doesn't pho

That doesn't prevent Google from collecting information about you. Even though you don't actively use Google on your Android device, doesn't mean it doesn't phone home and reports information to Google. For example, if you don't actively disable it, your phone sends the names of all Wifi-networks in your proximity to Google, so Google can tell you where you are faster and more accurate than with GPS. Even if you disable it, your phone will still fetch GPS positioning information from Google unless you change that to use another service. And so on and so on ... That's just one example, but there are multiple occasions where your stock Android phone phones home to Google.

lern_too_spel 7y ago
> For example, if you don't actively disable it, your phone sends the names of all Wifi-networks in your proximity to Google, so Google can tell you where you are faster and more accurate than with GPS. Even if you disable it, your phone will still fetch GPS positioning information from Google unless you change that to use another service. Nope. Sending this data to Google requires an opt in on Android (Google Location Services checkbox in the device setup flow). iOS has the same location system, but it won't even let you opt out of it, and that might be the source of your confusion.
- Animats 7y ago
  Right. I use Mozilla's location services, OpenStreetMap, and ZaNavi with locally stored maps. Not from fanaticism. It's just less hassle. Google is always getting in your face, wanting something or pushing an "upgrade" or or advertising something. Don't need that.
- close04 7y ago
  For any regular non-technical user locking down most Android phones (presumably some phones come with hardened settings and possibly with no Google services) and keeping the data away for Google is a huge challenge. The default settings are almost always very permissive, you have to dig down through settings to disable everything, and a lot of stuff isn't very obvious for anyone who doesn't expect such behavior. Oh even when the WiFi is off it will still scan for nearby SSIDs to get your position? https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DCN-Google-Data-Collection-Paper.pdf https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DC...
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    It is much less of a challenge than keeping your data away from Apple on iOS as my previous comment demonstrated. > Oh even when the WiFi is off it will still scan for nearby SSIDs to get your position? Again, this is opt in even on Google-flavored Android devices. There is no digging through settings required — the opt in checkbox appears in the setup flow. On iOS, there is nothing you can do to stop your device from doing this.
    - millstone 7y ago
      You don't have to do anything to get decent privacy on iOS because it comes like that out of the box. Do you honestly believe that Google has less data on Android users, compared to Apple for iOS users? > Again, this is opt in even on Google-flavored Android devices No, it's opt-out. For example see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2uSGGl0LWc&t=3m41s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2uSGGl0LWc&t=3m41s - setup on a Pixel and all the location stuff is on by default. > On iOS, there is nothing you can do to stop your device from doing this Oh, how do I turn this on for iOS? When I turn off WiFi it says that "improved location accuracy require Wi-Fi".
      - lern_too_spel 7y ago
        > You don't have to do anything to get decent privacy on iOS because it comes like that out of the box. It's amazing that somebody who works in tech would fall for that marketing when it is so obviously a lie. Consider that iOS sends every GPS location ever requested by your phone to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. Likewise, you can't stop Apple from knowing about every app you install on your phone or every address link you click on. If you want to develop apps for your own device, you have to hand over card details. "Out of the box," iOS tells Apple every phone number you SMS and when. And worst of all, if you're Chinese, you have no privacy at all on an iOS device. > Do you honestly believe that Google has less data on Android users, compared to Apple for iOS users? For users who care about privacy, absolutely. For users who care about usability, Google has more data but provides a more useful experience. That's a trade-off that is possible to make on Android. On iOS, you are stuck with poor privacy and worse usability. > No, it's opt-out. You are correct. That is still much better than not being able to opt out of sending every GPS lookup to Apple at all.
fyfy18 7y ago
And this is the sort of thing GDPR is meant to prevent. Unless you explicitly allow it (and a popup checked by default doesn't count), Google cannot use that data for purposes other than providing you with positioning information.
- justinclift 7y ago
  > And this is the sort of thing GDPR is meant to prevent. Sure. But Google being the immoral company it is has instead chosen to lawyer up, tell people it's compliant with the GDPR, and keep on collecting everything it can get its hands on anyway.
  - madez 7y ago
    Even if Google didn't touch by a ten-foot pole the data that it logs and collects for services like faster location finding for Android devices, which I think is unreasonable to assume, it is still accessible to the government under the 'national security' excuse.
    - justinclift 7y ago
      Good point. :)

lern_too_spel 7y ago

> For example, if you don't actively disable it, your phone sends the names of all Wifi-networks in your proximity to Google, so Google can tell you where you are faster and more accurate than with GPS. Even if you disable it, your phone will still fetch GPS positioning information from Google unless you change that to use another service. Nope. Sending this data to Google requires an opt in on Android (Google Location Services checkbox in the device setup flow). iOS has the same location system, but it won't even let you opt out of it, and that might be the source of your confusion.

Animats 7y ago
Right. I use Mozilla's location services, OpenStreetMap, and ZaNavi with locally stored maps. Not from fanaticism. It's just less hassle. Google is always getting in your face, wanting something or pushing an "upgrade" or or advertising something. Don't need that.
close04 7y ago
For any regular non-technical user locking down most Android phones (presumably some phones come with hardened settings and possibly with no Google services) and keeping the data away for Google is a huge challenge. The default settings are almost always very permissive, you have to dig down through settings to disable everything, and a lot of stuff isn't very obvious for anyone who doesn't expect such behavior. Oh even when the WiFi is off it will still scan for nearby SSIDs to get your position? https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DCN-Google-Data-Collection-Paper.pdf https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DC...
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  It is much less of a challenge than keeping your data away from Apple on iOS as my previous comment demonstrated. > Oh even when the WiFi is off it will still scan for nearby SSIDs to get your position? Again, this is opt in even on Google-flavored Android devices. There is no digging through settings required — the opt in checkbox appears in the setup flow. On iOS, there is nothing you can do to stop your device from doing this.
  - millstone 7y ago
    You don't have to do anything to get decent privacy on iOS because it comes like that out of the box. Do you honestly believe that Google has less data on Android users, compared to Apple for iOS users? > Again, this is opt in even on Google-flavored Android devices No, it's opt-out. For example see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2uSGGl0LWc&t=3m41s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2uSGGl0LWc&t=3m41s - setup on a Pixel and all the location stuff is on by default. > On iOS, there is nothing you can do to stop your device from doing this Oh, how do I turn this on for iOS? When I turn off WiFi it says that "improved location accuracy require Wi-Fi".
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      > You don't have to do anything to get decent privacy on iOS because it comes like that out of the box. It's amazing that somebody who works in tech would fall for that marketing when it is so obviously a lie. Consider that iOS sends every GPS location ever requested by your phone to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. Likewise, you can't stop Apple from knowing about every app you install on your phone or every address link you click on. If you want to develop apps for your own device, you have to hand over card details. "Out of the box," iOS tells Apple every phone number you SMS and when. And worst of all, if you're Chinese, you have no privacy at all on an iOS device. > Do you honestly believe that Google has less data on Android users, compared to Apple for iOS users? For users who care about privacy, absolutely. For users who care about usability, Google has more data but provides a more useful experience. That's a trade-off that is possible to make on Android. On iOS, you are stuck with poor privacy and worse usability. > No, it's opt-out. You are correct. That is still much better than not being able to opt out of sending every GPS lookup to Apple at all.

fyfy18 7y ago

And this is the sort of thing GDPR is meant to prevent. Unless you explicitly allow it (and a popup checked by default doesn't count), Google cannot use that data for purposes other than providing you with positioning information.

justinclift 7y ago
> And this is the sort of thing GDPR is meant to prevent. Sure. But Google being the immoral company it is has instead chosen to lawyer up, tell people it's compliant with the GDPR, and keep on collecting everything it can get its hands on anyway.
- madez 7y ago
  Even if Google didn't touch by a ten-foot pole the data that it logs and collects for services like faster location finding for Android devices, which I think is unreasonable to assume, it is still accessible to the government under the 'national security' excuse.
  - justinclift 7y ago
    Good point. :)