5 ms·

wow, i had no idea someone in what i assume is rural South Carolina is willing to undertake a pretty substantial convenience/time cost - drive 40 miles (and bac

wow, i had no idea someone in what i assume is rural South Carolina is willing to undertake a pretty substantial convenience/time cost - drive 40 miles (and back?) to purchase directly - in order to better guard their privacy. wonder if he also prefers cash? although this article is google-focused, not more generally on privacy which would presumably involve defeating credit card companies with cash. i'm wondering what order of magnitude of people would do the same across the country. tens of thousands?

chiefalchemist 7y ago
There's a new bridge near me. No cash tolls. It's either EasyPass or they photograph your plates and mail you the bill. I presume the lack of cash tolls is semi intentional. I mean all cars are being photographed, as you can borrow and EasyPass.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  Cash (largely, coinage, actually, for a tollbooth) has to be collected and transported. A lot of newer and lower-volume toll exits around me are pass-only. But since the tollway charges double for non-pass users anyways... everyone has the pass.
  - chiefalchemist 7y ago
    > "A lot of newer and lower-volume toll exits around me are pass-only. But since the tollway charges double for non-pass users anyways... everyone has the pass." So making collection easier not only handed over our privacy, it made doing it (i.e., tools) more often and for less money. And there's Liberty on the side of the road...death by one penny pricks?
- nvrspyx 7y ago
  Cash tolls cost more. You either need people stationed to collect the toll or send people every so often to collect the tolls from the machines. The machines would also need more maintenance than the camera or EasyPass system because they're mechanical. You also need the camera system regardless in case someone drives through without paying or simply doesn't have cash on hand. Plus, people will need exact change or have the machine (or employees) return the correct change if it's not a coinage machine. This also means cash tolls are slower and cause more congestion. Finally, fewer and fewer people have cash on hand.
  - chiefalchemist 7y ago
    Maybe. But the lack of cash tolls also enables the Surveillance State. So once again, we're trading privacy and liberty for what amounts to pocket lint. I think we have closure on the American experiment. Laziness/convenience trumps anything else.
    - scohesc 7y ago
      I mean the person in the booth could press a button to take a picture or write down the license plate every time someone goes through...
    - joshuamorton 7y ago
      Why do they need toll booths to add cameras? What prevents the surveillance state from just putting some cameras on the highway?
      - chiefalchemist 7y ago
        They might not. But I'm guessing the ACLU would likely have something to say about it. Just because it feels normalized doesn't mean we should be so accepting.
    - xboxnolifes 7y ago
      > the lack of cash tolls also enables the Surveillance State There are cameras there whether it is a cash toll or not.
      - chiefalchemist 7y ago
        Right. It's so normalized that even more aware ppl such as yourself aren't phased by making such observations.
  - maximente 7y ago
    sure, but all this relies on a fundamental assumption: that the entity running the toll booth already has the means to collect outside the point of transaction pretty reliably. so, it's either a highly connected society, or more cynically, a high surveillance society. in a sense it's a self fueling machine: you need to have that data linked to collect outside the tool booth, which requires data linked from DMV or whatever local equivalent is, then strong (enough) justice system/penalties/enforcement to get those who didn't pay at toll booth to pay, etc. you can bet that the smarter investment, despite these drawbacks, in less "advanced" countries is to have manned tolls because there's a high probability that they won't be able to collect using the sort of infrastructure upon which this relies.
- saltminer 7y ago
  In addition to the lower labor and maintenance costs, you can also do open-road tolling - no booths needed, no slowdowns to wait for the gates to go up, you just keep driving at 60+ MPH. You certainly can do both open-road and accept cash, but the traffic for the cash booths can back up onto the highway and slow down open-road traffic as well.

chiefalchemist 7y ago

There's a new bridge near me. No cash tolls. It's either EasyPass or they photograph your plates and mail you the bill. I presume the lack of cash tolls is semi intentional. I mean all cars are being photographed, as you can borrow and EasyPass.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
Cash (largely, coinage, actually, for a tollbooth) has to be collected and transported. A lot of newer and lower-volume toll exits around me are pass-only. But since the tollway charges double for non-pass users anyways... everyone has the pass.
- chiefalchemist 7y ago
  > "A lot of newer and lower-volume toll exits around me are pass-only. But since the tollway charges double for non-pass users anyways... everyone has the pass." So making collection easier not only handed over our privacy, it made doing it (i.e., tools) more often and for less money. And there's Liberty on the side of the road...death by one penny pricks?
nvrspyx 7y ago
Cash tolls cost more. You either need people stationed to collect the toll or send people every so often to collect the tolls from the machines. The machines would also need more maintenance than the camera or EasyPass system because they're mechanical. You also need the camera system regardless in case someone drives through without paying or simply doesn't have cash on hand. Plus, people will need exact change or have the machine (or employees) return the correct change if it's not a coinage machine. This also means cash tolls are slower and cause more congestion. Finally, fewer and fewer people have cash on hand.
- chiefalchemist 7y ago
  Maybe. But the lack of cash tolls also enables the Surveillance State. So once again, we're trading privacy and liberty for what amounts to pocket lint. I think we have closure on the American experiment. Laziness/convenience trumps anything else.
  - scohesc 7y ago
    I mean the person in the booth could press a button to take a picture or write down the license plate every time someone goes through...
  - joshuamorton 7y ago
    Why do they need toll booths to add cameras? What prevents the surveillance state from just putting some cameras on the highway?
    - chiefalchemist 7y ago
      They might not. But I'm guessing the ACLU would likely have something to say about it. Just because it feels normalized doesn't mean we should be so accepting.
  - xboxnolifes 7y ago
    > the lack of cash tolls also enables the Surveillance State There are cameras there whether it is a cash toll or not.
    - chiefalchemist 7y ago
      Right. It's so normalized that even more aware ppl such as yourself aren't phased by making such observations.
- maximente 7y ago
  sure, but all this relies on a fundamental assumption: that the entity running the toll booth already has the means to collect outside the point of transaction pretty reliably. so, it's either a highly connected society, or more cynically, a high surveillance society. in a sense it's a self fueling machine: you need to have that data linked to collect outside the tool booth, which requires data linked from DMV or whatever local equivalent is, then strong (enough) justice system/penalties/enforcement to get those who didn't pay at toll booth to pay, etc. you can bet that the smarter investment, despite these drawbacks, in less "advanced" countries is to have manned tolls because there's a high probability that they won't be able to collect using the sort of infrastructure upon which this relies.
saltminer 7y ago
In addition to the lower labor and maintenance costs, you can also do open-road tolling - no booths needed, no slowdowns to wait for the gates to go up, you just keep driving at 60+ MPH. You certainly can do both open-road and accept cash, but the traffic for the cash booths can back up onto the highway and slow down open-road traffic as well.