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I hear this all the time, but every time I ask for the data (I have actually asked people whose job is to do marketing for businesses) I'm told "just trust me."

I hear this all the time, but every time I ask for the data (I have actually asked people whose job is to do marketing for businesses) I'm told "just trust me." I am not saying they are lying, it would be truly surprising to believe such an elaborate house of cards could stand for so long. But I am asking for evidence.

mehrdadn 7y ago
What's your explanation for why they would make such a claim if it weren't true?
- MegaButts 7y ago
  People lie to keep their jobs all the time. They might also just not know, but because it's standard practice to use Facebook for advertising they just do it and say it's a necessity. What reason do they have to obfuscate the data unless the data shows something they don't want you to see?
  - mehrdadn 7y ago
    > What reason do they have to obfuscate the data unless the data shows something they don't want you to see? I mean, it seems like an internal corporate metric. I would expect to be refused that simply on the basis of it not being my business?
    - MegaButts 7y ago
      I've asked people at companies I work for. I've asked people at companies I've invested in. So in those cases, I already signed all the legal documents and NDAs. I've also asked people who did it for companies after they shut down. The only thing that's obvious is nobody wants to share the data. I suspect it's because the data is not as positive as we're supposed to believe.
      - mehrdadn 7y ago
        But even just working for a company doesn't mean you're entitled to see business metrics?
        MegaButts 7y ago
        I am not saying I'm entitled to it (although I think it should be available for an investor upon request), I'm saying the widespread refusal to share the evidence is a yellow flag that something is wrong.
        mehrdadn 7y ago
        I mean, it's possible, but I'm trying to say that I would expect every such request to be refused to a regular employee regardless of whether something is wrong or not.
        MegaButts 7y ago
        That doesn't explain the scenario where the company is shut down or I'm an investor. My question to you is: why would you ever trust a claim without evidence (especially when the people making that claim stand to personally profit from it)?
        mehrdadn 7y ago
        The investor case -- I mean, it depends on how much of an investor you were, and what the relevant rules are. But if anybody could become an investor in the company, then it's obviously not a real barrier... giving it to every investor would be like giving it to everyone, which they obviously wouldn't want to do. The shut-down case: well, maybe you feel they don't have a reason not to tell you internal info for a dead company, but the general hesitation would still be there, and I don't see what they would gain from it either. Hardly seems like evidence for hiding information. > My question to you is: why would you ever trust a claim without evidence (especially when the people making that claim stand to personally profit from it)? "Ever"? I mean, it's a case-by-case thing. I might do it if the evidence isn't available to me, and the opposite might imply believing there's a large-scale conspiracy to lie. Or I might not. The lack of someone telling an outsider internal information is not really strong evidence either way.
ameister14 7y ago
what data are you looking for, exactly? The data that shows greater granularity in targeting?

mehrdadn 7y ago

What's your explanation for why they would make such a claim if it weren't true?

MegaButts 7y ago
People lie to keep their jobs all the time. They might also just not know, but because it's standard practice to use Facebook for advertising they just do it and say it's a necessity. What reason do they have to obfuscate the data unless the data shows something they don't want you to see?
- mehrdadn 7y ago
  > What reason do they have to obfuscate the data unless the data shows something they don't want you to see? I mean, it seems like an internal corporate metric. I would expect to be refused that simply on the basis of it not being my business?
  - MegaButts 7y ago
    I've asked people at companies I work for. I've asked people at companies I've invested in. So in those cases, I already signed all the legal documents and NDAs. I've also asked people who did it for companies after they shut down. The only thing that's obvious is nobody wants to share the data. I suspect it's because the data is not as positive as we're supposed to believe.
    - mehrdadn 7y ago
      But even just working for a company doesn't mean you're entitled to see business metrics?
      - MegaButts 7y ago
        I am not saying I'm entitled to it (although I think it should be available for an investor upon request), I'm saying the widespread refusal to share the evidence is a yellow flag that something is wrong.
        mehrdadn 7y ago
        I mean, it's possible, but I'm trying to say that I would expect every such request to be refused to a regular employee regardless of whether something is wrong or not.
        MegaButts 7y ago
        That doesn't explain the scenario where the company is shut down or I'm an investor. My question to you is: why would you ever trust a claim without evidence (especially when the people making that claim stand to personally profit from it)?
        mehrdadn 7y ago
        The investor case -- I mean, it depends on how much of an investor you were, and what the relevant rules are. But if anybody could become an investor in the company, then it's obviously not a real barrier... giving it to every investor would be like giving it to everyone, which they obviously wouldn't want to do. The shut-down case: well, maybe you feel they don't have a reason not to tell you internal info for a dead company, but the general hesitation would still be there, and I don't see what they would gain from it either. Hardly seems like evidence for hiding information. > My question to you is: why would you ever trust a claim without evidence (especially when the people making that claim stand to personally profit from it)? "Ever"? I mean, it's a case-by-case thing. I might do it if the evidence isn't available to me, and the opposite might imply believing there's a large-scale conspiracy to lie. Or I might not. The lack of someone telling an outsider internal information is not really strong evidence either way.

ameister14 7y ago

what data are you looking for, exactly? The data that shows greater granularity in targeting?