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The president is vocally anti-free press, constantly making false claims about immigrants, telling members of congress who are native citizens to "go back where

The president is vocally anti-free press, constantly making false claims about immigrants, telling members of congress who are native citizens to "go back where they came from", vacationing more than any other prior president, and has failed to condemn white nationalism within his base. There's plenty of facist behavior going on in this administration.

cpp4life 7y ago
Vacationing president = fascism?
HBKXNCUO 7y ago
About the only thing you've listed that could possibly be construed as being fascist is being vocally anti-free press, and he's done almost nothing to hinder the press beyond tweeting about them. Making false claims about immigrants does not make anyone a fascist. Telling people to go back to their country of origin does not make anyone a fascist. Vacationing does not make someone a fascist. Failing to condemn white nationalism, or even being a white nationalist, does not make anyone a fascist.
ameister14 7y ago
This is deepening a tangent, but the only overtly fascist behavior you have listed there is anti-free press. Everything else is prejudice, racism and generally abhorrent but not necessarily fascist.
- save_ferris 7y ago
  Racism and prejudice have been hallmark behaviors of fascist regimes throughout history. Fascism itself relies on prejudice to create the in-group and the "others". In fact, historians don't even fully agree on what exactly fascism encompasses. We can't simply argue that there's some taxonomy of hate with clear boundaries when it comes to fascism. It's taken many forms throughout history. Racism was inherent to the Nazi movement as we all know, it's impossible to separate their racist behavior from the rest of their "standard" fascist behavior. The two were deeply linked. The fascist movement in Italy wasn't considered racially-driven, but still relied heavily forms of prejudice to create a society tolerant of fascism. You're essentially arguing that racist and prejudicial behavior, while abhorrent, can't be universally linked with fascism, while history has shown a strong relationship between them. Of course, we can't truly know whether the actions I've listed above constitute to a fascist movement until we actually see a populist takeover. In that regard, I truly hope that I'm wrong.
  - ameister14 7y ago
    Yes, there may be a correlation between racism and fascism but unfortunately racism and institutional racism also exist with many other forms of government. That's one of the reasons you shouldn't use it as an example of fascism. There has been no push or attempted justification for single party politics, no centralization of power unique to this president, no signs of a complete unwillingness to trade (in fact, there's a strong willingness to be interdependent as long as we 'win') Almost none of the other main signs of fascism are there. That said, it's entirely possible that they will appear in the future. Until that point, however, I'm reluctant to call this proto-fascism.
    - save_ferris 7y ago
      > There has been no push or attempted justification for single party politics He's vocally questioned if the democrats are "traitors" during public speeches[0], a wild accusation even for US political discourse. > no centralization of power unique to this president Today, he proclaimed in a speech that Article 2 of the US constitution gives him the right to do whatever he wants[1]. He's spent much of his administration embroiled in scandals involving demanding loyalty from subordinates, and has been repudiated by members of his own party for acting beyond the bounds of his authority. > no signs of a complete unwillingness to trade He started a massive trade war to protest the current trade situation with some of the largest players in the global economy. Sure, it's not state capitalism, but his trade strategy directly contradicts both major parties' philosophies regarding trade and is often subject to authoritarian rhetoric. Sure, this administration doesn't meet all of the classical definitions of what past fascist regimes have looked like. He may not be making a ton of concrete progress towards consolidating power, but he makes it very clear that he sees himself as having far more power than he actually does, and often gets frustrated when he isn't able to accomplish what he wants. He clearly hates our system of government and isn't afraid to question many of the basic tenets of our democracy. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-accuses-democrats-treason-market-rout.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-accuses... [1]: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-falsely-says-constitution-gives-him-unlimited-power-president-2019-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-falsely-says-constitut...
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into partisan flamewar or ideological flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

cpp4life 7y ago

Vacationing president = fascism?

HBKXNCUO 7y ago

About the only thing you've listed that could possibly be construed as being fascist is being vocally anti-free press, and he's done almost nothing to hinder the press beyond tweeting about them. Making false claims about immigrants does not make anyone a fascist. Telling people to go back to their country of origin does not make anyone a fascist. Vacationing does not make someone a fascist. Failing to condemn white nationalism, or even being a white nationalist, does not make anyone a fascist.

ameister14 7y ago

This is deepening a tangent, but the only overtly fascist behavior you have listed there is anti-free press. Everything else is prejudice, racism and generally abhorrent but not necessarily fascist.

save_ferris 7y ago
Racism and prejudice have been hallmark behaviors of fascist regimes throughout history. Fascism itself relies on prejudice to create the in-group and the "others". In fact, historians don't even fully agree on what exactly fascism encompasses. We can't simply argue that there's some taxonomy of hate with clear boundaries when it comes to fascism. It's taken many forms throughout history. Racism was inherent to the Nazi movement as we all know, it's impossible to separate their racist behavior from the rest of their "standard" fascist behavior. The two were deeply linked. The fascist movement in Italy wasn't considered racially-driven, but still relied heavily forms of prejudice to create a society tolerant of fascism. You're essentially arguing that racist and prejudicial behavior, while abhorrent, can't be universally linked with fascism, while history has shown a strong relationship between them. Of course, we can't truly know whether the actions I've listed above constitute to a fascist movement until we actually see a populist takeover. In that regard, I truly hope that I'm wrong.
- ameister14 7y ago
  Yes, there may be a correlation between racism and fascism but unfortunately racism and institutional racism also exist with many other forms of government. That's one of the reasons you shouldn't use it as an example of fascism. There has been no push or attempted justification for single party politics, no centralization of power unique to this president, no signs of a complete unwillingness to trade (in fact, there's a strong willingness to be interdependent as long as we 'win') Almost none of the other main signs of fascism are there. That said, it's entirely possible that they will appear in the future. Until that point, however, I'm reluctant to call this proto-fascism.
  - save_ferris 7y ago
    > There has been no push or attempted justification for single party politics He's vocally questioned if the democrats are "traitors" during public speeches[0], a wild accusation even for US political discourse. > no centralization of power unique to this president Today, he proclaimed in a speech that Article 2 of the US constitution gives him the right to do whatever he wants[1]. He's spent much of his administration embroiled in scandals involving demanding loyalty from subordinates, and has been repudiated by members of his own party for acting beyond the bounds of his authority. > no signs of a complete unwillingness to trade He started a massive trade war to protest the current trade situation with some of the largest players in the global economy. Sure, it's not state capitalism, but his trade strategy directly contradicts both major parties' philosophies regarding trade and is often subject to authoritarian rhetoric. Sure, this administration doesn't meet all of the classical definitions of what past fascist regimes have looked like. He may not be making a ton of concrete progress towards consolidating power, but he makes it very clear that he sees himself as having far more power than he actually does, and often gets frustrated when he isn't able to accomplish what he wants. He clearly hates our system of government and isn't afraid to question many of the basic tenets of our democracy. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-accuses-democrats-treason-market-rout.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-accuses... [1]: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-falsely-says-constitution-gives-him-unlimited-power-president-2019-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-falsely-says-constitut...

dang 7y ago

Please don't take HN threads further into partisan flamewar or ideological flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html