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There's clearly strong feelings in this thread. Whether or not a degree is necessary, I think we can say there's two groups: - People who went to university, g

There's clearly strong feelings in this thread. Whether or not a degree is necessary, I think we can say there's two groups: - People who went to university, going through significant effort for their degree, and want to defend that choice - People who _didnt_ go to school, perhaps suffering from a touch of imposter syndrome, who want to hide their insecurity I'm a 20yr old "self-taught" dev. I'm considering going back to school this year. But its a tough choice. Things are going very well for me in the professional world so far. I was in a CS undergrad program for a year but didn't feel like I was learning as well as I was on my own, to be honest. What I think I can say with confidence is theres not much point in arguing about this. If you want to go then go. If not, don't. Why do we have to prescribe a gospel on this? Let people decide what they want to do. Part of why "self-taught" devs like myself often suffer from insecurity is people shouting the absolute necessity of a degree. I don't see it.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mywittyname 7y ago
I went to school for CS after 10 years as a self-taught profession dev. The main value I derived from it was the experience. Specifically, learning how to meet new people. Being a shy person by nature, I forced myself to make two new friends in every class, and it worked really, really well and it's something that I probably could not replicate outside of a similar environment. Additionally, I legitimately enjoyed the coursework and learning about high(ish)-level math, art, and engineering that I may otherwise not have. It also gave me free time to pursue fitness and personal projects. I'm probably not a better programmer as a result. And I'm probably not wealthier either, as I failed to leverage my degree into a position in Big Tech, though as a middling developer, it does make it easier to find jobs. But I do think I'm a better, happier, healthier person, and I would do it again.
- sounds 7y ago
  The parent is exactly how I feel about my degree also. I didn't go back to school, I went to uni right on the "normal" schedule. The discussion today seems to be all about the logic of it (how will you know what's in a uni degree unless you go?) That was the logic that convinced me to go. It wasn't until I graduated that I could say, with confidence, none of the classes contained anything I didn't already know. (Yes, yes, including the theory classes.) But the parent is exactly right: going to uni is a complex decision with multiple independent axes to evaluate: will you make more money over your lifetime (probably not)? Will you get that job you want (probably not, it's more down to people skills)? What will you do with your spare time while in uni (you will have some spare time)? What will you do with the opportunities to meet people? Then there's what uni you want to attend. How you plan to pay for it. Whether you want to live in a dorm, live with your parents, or go online.
munificent 7y ago
> There's clearly strong feelings in this thread. It's always like this when it comes up, which is fairly often here, and I think you're right to point this out. It's an emotionally loaded topic, which means it's a hard one to actually get useful data from. I think there's a couple of things going on here: The path someone takes to get where they are is a huge part of their identity. So when they look back on their own history, they want to feel that that path is a good, valuable one because it implies that they are valuable people. So everyone who doesn't have a degree has an incentive to feel it's not important. Likewise, everyone who has a degree wants to feel it is. The thing is, they're both right. There are many many paths and almost all of them are worthwhile human experiences. Many of them even lead to being a good software engineer. (And of those that don't, they still often lead to being a valuable human in other, often more important ways.) But the reason it's useful to write about this stuff is for people that are looking ahead and trying to choose a path. Those people want to know the odds of each path and how likely it is to work out for them. Unfortunately, a long list of anecdotes is really hard to synthesize into that. It's like trying to figure out where to eat dinner when every single restaurant review is five stars. I don't have good data either, but if you're trying to pick your path, I would think about your personality and how that's likely to interact with your choice: Not going to school gives you more freedom to explore your interests and choose a unique, idiosyncratic path. If you are driven and focused, you can get farther down a road than most others will because you have the freedom to focus on areas where you are passionate. If you want to stand out, it's easier to do so this way. At the same time, if you aren't self-directed and passionate, you can end up meandering and going nowhere. No one will tell you what to do and it's easy to end up doing nothing, or just dabbling a little in a million things. All of the onus to create structure and discipline is on you. School will give you a structured environment to learn in. It gives you a curriculum crafted by experts so you will be introduced to topics in a reasonable order and you'll be shown things you might not have realized are important. You'll also absorb much of the culture and tribal knowledge of the field. However, this is skewed towards academia, and if your goal is ultimately industry, this may not be pure win. Personally, I think going to school is generally a good, safe bet. You'll learn a lot, have a good experience, and meet a lot of people. You'll take a bunch of non-CS classes that will round you out as a human. Even though I dropped out, I got a ton out of my limited college experience, mostly not related to programming. Not getting a degree is a higher variance path. You may blaze a trail and end up somewhere exciting and unique. You could be the next Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. Or you could end up flipping burgers, or underpaid because you're at a company that values degrees.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mywittyname 7y ago

I went to school for CS after 10 years as a self-taught profession dev. The main value I derived from it was the experience. Specifically, learning how to meet new people. Being a shy person by nature, I forced myself to make two new friends in every class, and it worked really, really well and it's something that I probably could not replicate outside of a similar environment. Additionally, I legitimately enjoyed the coursework and learning about high(ish)-level math, art, and engineering that I may otherwise not have. It also gave me free time to pursue fitness and personal projects. I'm probably not a better programmer as a result. And I'm probably not wealthier either, as I failed to leverage my degree into a position in Big Tech, though as a middling developer, it does make it easier to find jobs. But I do think I'm a better, happier, healthier person, and I would do it again.

sounds 7y ago
The parent is exactly how I feel about my degree also. I didn't go back to school, I went to uni right on the "normal" schedule. The discussion today seems to be all about the logic of it (how will you know what's in a uni degree unless you go?) That was the logic that convinced me to go. It wasn't until I graduated that I could say, with confidence, none of the classes contained anything I didn't already know. (Yes, yes, including the theory classes.) But the parent is exactly right: going to uni is a complex decision with multiple independent axes to evaluate: will you make more money over your lifetime (probably not)? Will you get that job you want (probably not, it's more down to people skills)? What will you do with your spare time while in uni (you will have some spare time)? What will you do with the opportunities to meet people? Then there's what uni you want to attend. How you plan to pay for it. Whether you want to live in a dorm, live with your parents, or go online.

munificent 7y ago

> There's clearly strong feelings in this thread. It's always like this when it comes up, which is fairly often here, and I think you're right to point this out. It's an emotionally loaded topic, which means it's a hard one to actually get useful data from. I think there's a couple of things going on here: The path someone takes to get where they are is a huge part of their identity. So when they look back on their own history, they want to feel that that path is a good, valuable one because it implies that they are valuable people. So everyone who doesn't have a degree has an incentive to feel it's not important. Likewise, everyone who has a degree wants to feel it is. The thing is, they're both right. There are many many paths and almost all of them are worthwhile human experiences. Many of them even lead to being a good software engineer. (And of those that don't, they still often lead to being a valuable human in other, often more important ways.) But the reason it's useful to write about this stuff is for people that are looking ahead and trying to choose a path. Those people want to know the odds of each path and how likely it is to work out for them. Unfortunately, a long list of anecdotes is really hard to synthesize into that. It's like trying to figure out where to eat dinner when every single restaurant review is five stars. I don't have good data either, but if you're trying to pick your path, I would think about your personality and how that's likely to interact with your choice: Not going to school gives you more freedom to explore your interests and choose a unique, idiosyncratic path. If you are driven and focused, you can get farther down a road than most others will because you have the freedom to focus on areas where you are passionate. If you want to stand out, it's easier to do so this way. At the same time, if you aren't self-directed and passionate, you can end up meandering and going nowhere. No one will tell you what to do and it's easy to end up doing nothing, or just dabbling a little in a million things. All of the onus to create structure and discipline is on you. School will give you a structured environment to learn in. It gives you a curriculum crafted by experts so you will be introduced to topics in a reasonable order and you'll be shown things you might not have realized are important. You'll also absorb much of the culture and tribal knowledge of the field. However, this is skewed towards academia, and if your goal is ultimately industry, this may not be pure win. Personally, I think going to school is generally a good, safe bet. You'll learn a lot, have a good experience, and meet a lot of people. You'll take a bunch of non-CS classes that will round you out as a human. Even though I dropped out, I got a ton out of my limited college experience, mostly not related to programming. Not getting a degree is a higher variance path. You may blaze a trail and end up somewhere exciting and unique. You could be the next Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. Or you could end up flipping burgers, or underpaid because you're at a company that values degrees.