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> For professional use, that is just unacceptable. If you rely on your computer for income, you can't wait that long. This may be an unpopular opinion, and I d

> For professional use, that is just unacceptable. If you rely on your computer for income, you can't wait that long. This may be an unpopular opinion, and I don't mean to sound dismissive or suggest that waiting 3 weeks is normal, but I do think it is incredibly unprofessional to rely on a single device like that for work. If it's truly an indispensable part of your job, you should have a backup--that goes for anything, not just computers. It could be a 10-year-old hand-me-down or a cheapo Chromebook, but you should have a backup plan. > Other brands (HP, Dell, Lenovo) offer on-site same day repair service. They send someone to your location and if they can't fix it on site, they'll give you a replacement/loaner. For me, that service is well worth the cost. If only Apple would offer that. When I was first getting started as a programmer, I made most of my income by doing tech support, rather than actual programming. A large percentage of the cases were people hiring me to deal with the likes of HP, Dell, and Lenovo because their "on-site same day repair services" were absolute garbage about 50% of the time. You could get a laptop with a DoA hard drive, but they'd refuse to replace it unless it failed their specific check, which was always inadequate. It was normal to argue with them for 6+ hours about it. You could put a fresh drive in to demonstrate that the issue was gone, but they'd still refuse to do anything. It wouldn't matter if it BSODed consistently with a fresh installation on their drive but not on the drive I was using for testing, or if the SMART results were the worst I'd ever seen--no test fail, no replacement. > IFAIK Apple does not offer such service (unless you have >50 devices). It varies widely depending on location. If you go to a large, busy Apple store, they tend to have a lot more parts on-hand; it doesn't need to be in Silicon Valley as long as it's big. If they need to order parts, they'll give you the option to hold onto your device until the parts arrive. I've gotten apologies when a repair took longer than 24 hours. I tend to prefer the Microsoft store method, though: when I've had issues with Surface-series devices, they've never attempted to repair it there; they just hand me a new one. It's hard to beat that. (I guess Apple's approach is better if you need to recover your data, but I never save anything valuable on a single device.)

AlphaSite 7y ago
That how apple handle sit for iPhones and iPads, macs are just different.
edoceo 7y ago
Not everyone can afford a second machine.
- coldtea 7y ago
  An ordinary Joe, student, sure. But if you're a professional and depend on one being available at all times, it's part of the cost of doing business. What if your machine was not faulty and repairable, but stolen, broken because you've dropped it, etc? There would be no warranty/repair at play there, and no replacement unit. So, a professional should always account for a backup machine as a, well, backup as part of the cost of doing business. If they can't afford a second machine, they can ask themselves if they can afford weeks without a machine and customers waiting for work to be completed, more...
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    > it's part of the cost of doing business. I think the point you're missing is that it needn't be a requirement of doing business, unless you insist on using Apple products. And, even if I have a full closet of old computers (I do) that doesn't mean I find it enjoyable to switch back to old hardware for a week or more, when the alternative is somebody coming to me within a day to fix it on site. If I enjoyed using that old hardware, I probably wouldn't have the new hardware would I? Surely any typical Apple user prefers using their brand new $2000 computer over their old computer that would struggle to get a tenth of that on ebay.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >I think the point you're missing is that it needn't be a requirement of doing business, unless you insist on using Apple products. I don't think I'm missing any point. Comparably spec'ed laptops from PC vendors are of similar price. And even a desktop tower-style PC soon goes to more than $2K with good enough components (if you're a video or audio pro, for example -- a sysadmin could get away with a $300 PC barely able to run SSH). At best you save the Apple premium (let's say 20%), but there's still a cost for a second unit, and you should consider it part of the cost of doing business. >And, even if I have a full closet of old computers (I do) that doesn't mean I find it enjoyable to switch back to old hardware for a week or more, when the alternative is somebody coming to me within a day to fix it on site Who said anything about "old hardware"? Your backup should just as well be a twin machine to your main driver, that you buy in pairs as backup. This all is common (and obvious) practice for businesses -- who buy spare PCs, or lease their equipment and can have new ones on demand. It should also be common practice for an individual developer/designer/pro computer user working in an one-man-shop.
LeonM 7y ago
> but I do think it is incredibly unprofessional to rely on a single device like that for work. If it's truly an indispensable part of your job, you should have a backup. I have a service contract on my car, if it breaks the dealer will supply me with a loaner while my car is being repaired. I don't want to buy a second car just because my primary car may or may not break. The same goes for my laptop. I always pay for a service contract so I don't have to buy an extra laptop that I may never need. I don't like over-consuming. I guess my frustration is that I bought a $3000 'pro' grade laptop, and paid an additional ~$300 for the 'care' package and still got the same service level as their consumer customers get. I would have happily paid even more to get a solid service contract, but Apple just doesn't offer that (at least not in my country).
- zenexer 7y ago
  Chances are: 1. A backup laptop is cheaper than a backup car. 2. You don't need your car for work; you can take Uber/Lyft or a taxi if need be. 3. If you do need your car for work, you've accepted loss of your car of extended periods of time as a risk and have probably gotten insurance for that. I hope. 4. If you're a big company for which cars are an integral part of your business, you have backups. I don't take my car to dealers to get it repaired. The ones around here do a terrible job, and when I take it back, it's not unusual for the mechanics to sabotage various components (e.g., deliberately point both headlights as far down as they'll go). I'd rather forego the loaner and take my car to a reputable independent mechanic. Additionally, the dealers around here usually don't offer a loaner anyway without an extra fee, except under certain circumstances (e.g., the repair takes longer than they expected because they broke my windshield and had to order a replacement--yes, that happened).
chronogram 7y ago
Dell is my insurance for that. Not a second multi thousand dollar laptop.
- olyjohn 7y ago
  Good luck with that, when your part isn't available, you're gonna be waiting and wish you had a backup.
  - chronogram 7y ago
    3 weeks if I don’t have to sue them and if I live in SV?
opencl 7y ago
Microsoft doesn't attempt to repair their machines because they are glued shut to the extent that they are basically impossible to repair. The fast turnaround is nice when you have a problem covered by warranty but if you have any problem whatsoever out of warranty you have to pay the entire price of a new machine to resolve it.
statictype 7y ago
>If it's truly an indispensable part of your job, you should have a backup--that goes for anything, not just computers. It could be a 10-year-old hand-me-down or a cheapo Chromebook, but you should have a backup plan. There's a difference between backups and failover. It's unprofessional to not have backups, yes. Expecting every working person to own 2 expensive laptops 'just in case' a faulty keyboard design requires 1 week of downtime? Makes no sense. A cheap Chromebook or 10 year laptop is almost certainly not going to be usable as a replacement so it will have to be a larger investment than that.
- zenexer 7y ago
  As a programmer who works as a contractor, I carry around at least two laptops (one Windows, one macOS) and two phones (one Android, one iPhone). If I'm traveling to an unfamiliar area where I'm not familiar with the theft risks, I swap out the two laptops for an older laptop and a Chromebook, or sometimes just the Chromebook. I can do everything I need to do from that Chromebook, and I have a very hard time seeing how others couldn't do the same. I can use Chrome Remote Desktop to connect to my desktop or a cloud-based workstation as long as I have an internet connection--and my two phones have two distinct carriers, so that's rarely an issue. Really down on my luck? I've got a few Raspberry Pis on which I can use vim. They're slow, but they work.
greedo 7y ago
Imagine being a college student who needs their computer for accessing their online courses. It's not like your professor is going to say "Oh it's fine, turn in your stuff late." Nope, you get in trouble...
- zenexer 7y ago
  No, they tell you to go to the library, where there happen to be computers that anyone can use.

AlphaSite 7y ago

That how apple handle sit for iPhones and iPads, macs are just different.

edoceo 7y ago

Not everyone can afford a second machine.

coldtea 7y ago
An ordinary Joe, student, sure. But if you're a professional and depend on one being available at all times, it's part of the cost of doing business. What if your machine was not faulty and repairable, but stolen, broken because you've dropped it, etc? There would be no warranty/repair at play there, and no replacement unit. So, a professional should always account for a backup machine as a, well, backup as part of the cost of doing business. If they can't afford a second machine, they can ask themselves if they can afford weeks without a machine and customers waiting for work to be completed, more...
- darkpuma 7y ago
  > it's part of the cost of doing business. I think the point you're missing is that it needn't be a requirement of doing business, unless you insist on using Apple products. And, even if I have a full closet of old computers (I do) that doesn't mean I find it enjoyable to switch back to old hardware for a week or more, when the alternative is somebody coming to me within a day to fix it on site. If I enjoyed using that old hardware, I probably wouldn't have the new hardware would I? Surely any typical Apple user prefers using their brand new $2000 computer over their old computer that would struggle to get a tenth of that on ebay.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >I think the point you're missing is that it needn't be a requirement of doing business, unless you insist on using Apple products. I don't think I'm missing any point. Comparably spec'ed laptops from PC vendors are of similar price. And even a desktop tower-style PC soon goes to more than $2K with good enough components (if you're a video or audio pro, for example -- a sysadmin could get away with a $300 PC barely able to run SSH). At best you save the Apple premium (let's say 20%), but there's still a cost for a second unit, and you should consider it part of the cost of doing business. >And, even if I have a full closet of old computers (I do) that doesn't mean I find it enjoyable to switch back to old hardware for a week or more, when the alternative is somebody coming to me within a day to fix it on site Who said anything about "old hardware"? Your backup should just as well be a twin machine to your main driver, that you buy in pairs as backup. This all is common (and obvious) practice for businesses -- who buy spare PCs, or lease their equipment and can have new ones on demand. It should also be common practice for an individual developer/designer/pro computer user working in an one-man-shop.

LeonM 7y ago

> but I do think it is incredibly unprofessional to rely on a single device like that for work. If it's truly an indispensable part of your job, you should have a backup. I have a service contract on my car, if it breaks the dealer will supply me with a loaner while my car is being repaired. I don't want to buy a second car just because my primary car may or may not break. The same goes for my laptop. I always pay for a service contract so I don't have to buy an extra laptop that I may never need. I don't like over-consuming. I guess my frustration is that I bought a $3000 'pro' grade laptop, and paid an additional ~$300 for the 'care' package and still got the same service level as their consumer customers get. I would have happily paid even more to get a solid service contract, but Apple just doesn't offer that (at least not in my country).

zenexer 7y ago
Chances are: 1. A backup laptop is cheaper than a backup car. 2. You don't need your car for work; you can take Uber/Lyft or a taxi if need be. 3. If you do need your car for work, you've accepted loss of your car of extended periods of time as a risk and have probably gotten insurance for that. I hope. 4. If you're a big company for which cars are an integral part of your business, you have backups. I don't take my car to dealers to get it repaired. The ones around here do a terrible job, and when I take it back, it's not unusual for the mechanics to sabotage various components (e.g., deliberately point both headlights as far down as they'll go). I'd rather forego the loaner and take my car to a reputable independent mechanic. Additionally, the dealers around here usually don't offer a loaner anyway without an extra fee, except under certain circumstances (e.g., the repair takes longer than they expected because they broke my windshield and had to order a replacement--yes, that happened).

chronogram 7y ago

Dell is my insurance for that. Not a second multi thousand dollar laptop.

olyjohn 7y ago
Good luck with that, when your part isn't available, you're gonna be waiting and wish you had a backup.
- chronogram 7y ago
  3 weeks if I don’t have to sue them and if I live in SV?

opencl 7y ago

Microsoft doesn't attempt to repair their machines because they are glued shut to the extent that they are basically impossible to repair. The fast turnaround is nice when you have a problem covered by warranty but if you have any problem whatsoever out of warranty you have to pay the entire price of a new machine to resolve it.

statictype 7y ago

>If it's truly an indispensable part of your job, you should have a backup--that goes for anything, not just computers. It could be a 10-year-old hand-me-down or a cheapo Chromebook, but you should have a backup plan. There's a difference between backups and failover. It's unprofessional to not have backups, yes. Expecting every working person to own 2 expensive laptops 'just in case' a faulty keyboard design requires 1 week of downtime? Makes no sense. A cheap Chromebook or 10 year laptop is almost certainly not going to be usable as a replacement so it will have to be a larger investment than that.

zenexer 7y ago
As a programmer who works as a contractor, I carry around at least two laptops (one Windows, one macOS) and two phones (one Android, one iPhone). If I'm traveling to an unfamiliar area where I'm not familiar with the theft risks, I swap out the two laptops for an older laptop and a Chromebook, or sometimes just the Chromebook. I can do everything I need to do from that Chromebook, and I have a very hard time seeing how others couldn't do the same. I can use Chrome Remote Desktop to connect to my desktop or a cloud-based workstation as long as I have an internet connection--and my two phones have two distinct carriers, so that's rarely an issue. Really down on my luck? I've got a few Raspberry Pis on which I can use vim. They're slow, but they work.

greedo 7y ago

Imagine being a college student who needs their computer for accessing their online courses. It's not like your professor is going to say "Oh it's fine, turn in your stuff late." Nope, you get in trouble...

zenexer 7y ago
No, they tell you to go to the library, where there happen to be computers that anyone can use.