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Make peace with this fact: you can most definitely build businesses and add value to any organization. But you won't be able to optimize Twitch's video codec or

Make peace with this fact: you can most definitely build businesses and add value to any organization. But you won't be able to optimize Twitch's video codec or any other very low level, uber-specific, high impact code. Business need both types in this world. No shame in that, but don't lie to yourself into thinking that you can do _both_ with no CS degree. You can't.

sus_007 7y ago
So you're saying a highly motivated individual with an access to World Wide Web and physical textbooks can't teach him/herself to optimize "Twitch's video codec" or any low-level problems on their own ?
- sergiotapia 7y ago
  Everything is against you. You probably won't.
  - BubbleBill420 7y ago
    Congrats. You are the HN idiot of the day!
setpatchaddress 7y ago
Nonsense. You can absolutely teach yourself to optimize low-level code if that's what you want to do. The amazing thing about today's world is that all of the incredible resources available for learning just about anything in science and engineering to anyone who has the time to consume them. And you can work on open source projects to build your native skills. The difficult part for you will be obtaining an interview. Because all of the other candidates will have CS degrees, and increasing numbers of them will have graduate degrees. You are at a disadvantage.
- langitbiru 7y ago
  The other difficult part is to put aside time and money. I mean the information is most likely free but you still need food. Food is not free. Then you have to work so you can buy food. If you work, you will have less time to study by yourself. In this sense, UBI is a godsend. But of course, we assume all actors are rational and self-disciplined.
- rvz 7y ago
  The main difference is that more resources are now publicly available to everyone to look up on the internet which was a different story 40 years ago. This is why companies at the time hired grads that can re-implement closed-source software from scratch from a reference spec or by reverse-engineering from another company to stay ahead. This has happened with device drivers and closed-source compilers. To some extent open-source has removed the cost for reinventing libraries, reverse engineering and there is little need to study specific elements in a subject to solve such a problem when you can grab lib_whatever or a free compiler for a language. You are right that in interviews at famous companies (FAANG, asset management companies, aerospace / embedded systems companies) being self-taught here isn't enough. Instead, they require specific certifications and they look for the graduate with a strong engineering degree rather than someone who is self-taught.* Right now in 2019, I would do both. *Having a serious open-source project or significant contributions is actually a huge advantage over recent graduates.
joefourier 7y ago
How would a CS degree help with any of that? I'm someone with experience in weird uber-specific, low-level areas of computer graphics/imaging with no CS degree, and none of the CS graduates I know have been taught those things at university. Some PhDs and math students yes (at least, with regards to the algorithmic portions), but otherwise you have to learn the low-level esoteric stuff on your own, or be lucky enough to have a specialized optional course at your university. And the cutting-edge will rarely be available to undergraduates anyway. All my CS graduate colleagues learned about codecs was how to compute a DCT by hand - they certainly didn't learn the modern 4x4 and 8x8 spatial block transform approximations as used in h264, or any motion vector calculation algorithms, or the x86_64 SIMD intrinsics, or any of the modern entropy coding methods.
- eldenbishop 7y ago
  I agree. Nothing in a typical CS degree would help with this. Maybe if your Masters was specifically in this obscure part of the field. On the other hand, I used to work in the video game industry where degrees (used to be) relatively rare and I probably knew 12 different guys who could optimize this kind of thing in their sleep.

sus_007 7y ago

So you're saying a highly motivated individual with an access to World Wide Web and physical textbooks can't teach him/herself to optimize "Twitch's video codec" or any low-level problems on their own ?

sergiotapia 7y ago
Everything is against you. You probably won't.
- BubbleBill420 7y ago
  Congrats. You are the HN idiot of the day!

setpatchaddress 7y ago

Nonsense. You can absolutely teach yourself to optimize low-level code if that's what you want to do. The amazing thing about today's world is that all of the incredible resources available for learning just about anything in science and engineering to anyone who has the time to consume them. And you can work on open source projects to build your native skills. The difficult part for you will be obtaining an interview. Because all of the other candidates will have CS degrees, and increasing numbers of them will have graduate degrees. You are at a disadvantage.

langitbiru 7y ago
The other difficult part is to put aside time and money. I mean the information is most likely free but you still need food. Food is not free. Then you have to work so you can buy food. If you work, you will have less time to study by yourself. In this sense, UBI is a godsend. But of course, we assume all actors are rational and self-disciplined.
rvz 7y ago
The main difference is that more resources are now publicly available to everyone to look up on the internet which was a different story 40 years ago. This is why companies at the time hired grads that can re-implement closed-source software from scratch from a reference spec or by reverse-engineering from another company to stay ahead. This has happened with device drivers and closed-source compilers. To some extent open-source has removed the cost for reinventing libraries, reverse engineering and there is little need to study specific elements in a subject to solve such a problem when you can grab lib_whatever or a free compiler for a language. You are right that in interviews at famous companies (FAANG, asset management companies, aerospace / embedded systems companies) being self-taught here isn't enough. Instead, they require specific certifications and they look for the graduate with a strong engineering degree rather than someone who is self-taught.* Right now in 2019, I would do both. *Having a serious open-source project or significant contributions is actually a huge advantage over recent graduates.

joefourier 7y ago

How would a CS degree help with any of that? I'm someone with experience in weird uber-specific, low-level areas of computer graphics/imaging with no CS degree, and none of the CS graduates I know have been taught those things at university. Some PhDs and math students yes (at least, with regards to the algorithmic portions), but otherwise you have to learn the low-level esoteric stuff on your own, or be lucky enough to have a specialized optional course at your university. And the cutting-edge will rarely be available to undergraduates anyway. All my CS graduate colleagues learned about codecs was how to compute a DCT by hand - they certainly didn't learn the modern 4x4 and 8x8 spatial block transform approximations as used in h264, or any motion vector calculation algorithms, or the x86_64 SIMD intrinsics, or any of the modern entropy coding methods.

eldenbishop 7y ago
I agree. Nothing in a typical CS degree would help with this. Maybe if your Masters was specifically in this obscure part of the field. On the other hand, I used to work in the video game industry where degrees (used to be) relatively rare and I probably knew 12 different guys who could optimize this kind of thing in their sleep.