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Not emphasized in Johnny’s post, there’s also a ton of neighborhood pushback against flea markets and such in many communities. Basically the wealthier folks do
by burlesona 7y ago
Not emphasized in Johnny’s post, there’s also a ton of neighborhood pushback against flea markets and such in many communities. Basically the wealthier folks don’t like the aesthetics of these things, and will argue that they’re a nuisance or crime-magnets or whatever, a thin veneer over the discomfort they have with anything that draws a low income crowd.
You’ll see things like the “Sunday Farmers Market” that closes a block of a street somewhere because temporary event permits are much easier to get and harder to block, but the kind of semi-permanent marketplace described in the article remains rare.
And he’s right, cities don’t have a lot of incentive to try and make space for these sorts of entry level incubator environments because in most cases they can’t skim any tax off it - the underlying property is still just a parking lot and they usually can’t reassess the value for impermanent activities happening on top.
- jschwartzi 7y agoThe city also doesn't have a way to measure the increase in tax revenue that comes from having a place to walk to that you can get food, tools, clothing, and supplies. I wish I didn't have to drive anywhere to get stuff, and if I lived near a flea market I actually wouldn't have to drive anywhere.
- lonelappde 7y agoWhy would you say that? Cities ate constantly doing studies of revenue and cost impact. Forecasting revenue and traffic changes is bread and butter stuff. Putting flea markets in walking distant of everyone is a terrible logistical model.
- WhyKill 7y agoActually no, it's amazing one. This is how markets have been for thousands of years, within walking distance of the homes of the people using them. But yet it isn't compatible with modern "advances" like zoning, parking lots, and NIMBY driven politics.
- gronfr1 7y agoalso not compatible with modern 'advances' like fire and hygiene codes and bans on open defecation.
- imesh 7y agoWhat makes you say that? I haven't seen feces at an open market in my life. Farmers markets exist currently, I don't understand the issue?
- dTal 7y agoZoning, in particular, is a terrible scourge on communities. It's hard to overstate the social damage caused by making it essentially illegal to build a functioning "village". I would go so far as to assert that it essentially shreds the fabric of society, both directly (by robbing people of shared local activities and context), and indirectly (by forcing everyone into cars to get anything done, where they can't interact with one another). If you've ever lived in a town where shops, parks, living quarters, and government buildings are cheek-by-jowl within walking distance, a "zoned" area feels like a desert - unable to sustain life.
- erikpukinskis 7y ago> it essentially shreds the fabric of society This is intentional. You shred the fabric of society, then you can let companies sell all of it back to people and tax the value. No tax revenue when your Auntie cools lunch for the neighborhood kids.
- jimmaswell 7y agoMaybe we should work on making cities less greedy about tax revenue and instead care more about benefiting the people who live there.
- lonelappde 7y agoWhy are you blaming cities for a straw man wholly invented by an HN poster?
- Angostura 7y agoThe problem is that's a lovely sentiment until there isn't enough money to keep the libraries open.
- flattone 7y ago+10 simce when did we start loving in "everyone be happy america"
- jimmaswell 7y agoTiny rural towns manage to have libraries. Cities are just addicted to tax revenue.
- lazyasciiart 7y agoA lot of them don't, though. Libraries are often funded by the county, not the city, which can help the tiny towns with a library, but there are plenty of tiny rural towns that don't have one. Like everything else, they need funding to survive. Here's an example where the county stopped funding them so the cities have stepped up with taxes and donations: https://expo.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/06/e72ef198469825/county_govt_closed_all_their_p.html https://expo.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/06/e72ef198469825...
- dragonwriter 7y ago> Tiny rural towns manage to have libraries. Often, when they do, it is either: (1) Because of state funding specifically for rural counties, which amounts to a revenue transfer from urban counties, or (2) Because the rural town is in a county with, and deriving revenue from, a city, funding county libraries in the rural town as well as the city. Even more often, tiny rural towns don't have public libraries, and you have to go to a neighboring town or the nearest city.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago>there’s also a ton of neighborhood pushback against flea markets and such in many communities. Basically the wealthier folks don’t like the aesthetics of these things Tons of perfectly fine things that don't really bother anyone are not allowed because wealthy people don't like the aesthetics.
- jandrese 7y ago"Don't like the aesthetics" is code for "it attracts minorities and the poor." The primary reason they or their direct ancestors moved out of the city in the first place was to get away from "those people".
- gronfr1 7y ago"It attracts minorities and the poor" is wokespeak for "It drives up the crime rate, lowers the value of the property you're still paying mortgage on, makes it less safe to go out at night, and makes it more likely that your child will accidentally step on a used syringe."
- dsfyu404ed 7y agoThere's a heck of a lot of room for variation between "minorities and poor" and driving up the crime rate. The blue collar dude with five cars and a project boat in his yard is totally unwelcome as far as the "muh property values" types care. He's not driving up the crime rate or leaving used needles around though.
- benj111 7y ago"Basically the wealthier folks don’t like the aesthetics" That's not inherent though. A nice French brocante sale basically sells tat, but its nice and acceptable. I don't think its impossible that this flea market could become a hipster hang out. One of the eateries starts making a name for itself, and people start seeking it out. It isn't just poor people that want a functioning high st. Edit: Spelling
- lacampbell 7y agoBasically the wealthier folks don’t like the aesthetics of these things Isn't TFA a wealthy guy raving about how great the flea market is? Clearly a lot of wealthy folk do like the aesthetics.
- gronfr1 7y agothe wealthy class LOVES the aesthetics of those things. Woke is so IN right now. The middle class, on the other hand, have mortgages to pay and thin walls to block the noise with.
- enraged_camel 7y agoHow does it go from "the article is about a wealthy guy who likes it" to "clearly a lot of wealthy folks do like it"?