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Thanks for the answer. Well, I've had similar problems with others' code in other languages. (Unicode problems are hardly Perl specific. 3rd party libraries wi

by berntb 16y ago

Thanks for the answer. Well, I've had similar problems with others' code in other languages. (Unicode problems are hardly Perl specific. 3rd party libraries will always have different problems. '='/'==', etc.) What you are really saying is that expressibility is bad? Cargo cult programmers might get more problems in expressible languages. But these languages are arguably more capable tools for competent programmers. (Moose is the standard example this day -- the OO subsystem ripped out of Perl 5 and replaced with something like Perl 6/Common Lisp.) I like Perl because of the nice, smart and laid back community -- and because Perl is fun. This makes me motivated. The main disadvantage is the learning curve. (-: Well, and the trolling from the competition... :-)

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viraptor 16y ago
> What you are really saying is that expressibility is bad? Almost the opposite, actually. I quite like Haskell and Scala, which can be extremely expressive (no dynamically modifiable parsers though ;) ) - but at the same time the area where you can make a mistake is minimal compared to Perl programs. Things where Perl will leave you a warning (which might get lost in other output), simply won't compile in others (for example ==/eq "problem"). On the other hand you don't need the type annotations for majority of code, so it doesn't induce the verbosity you'd get in Java or others. It all goes back to the preference in the end ;)
- berntb 16y ago
  Well, I would have no problems with a nice lisp variant, either. Given enough supporting libraries. Anyone that ignores warning messages will suffer. :-) Note that Perl 6 is a scripting language which can declare types. The '=='/'eq' thing is common among scripting languages. It is a detail, you find things like this in all complex packages of rules. Most scripting languages will get (some) problems with typing, especially in function parameters for the external APIs in libraries. If you use strict, you get away from some classical problems, e.g. variable name misspellings. With Moose (or other CPAN stuff), you can have powerful typing handling etc. >>It all goes back to the preference in the end ;) Let me note -- that is not where you started a few comments ago. :-)
  - viraptor 16y ago
    > Let me note -- that is not where you started a few comments ago. Argh - I have to learn to stop in a good time ;) Actually what I meant is that even if though I really believe in what I wrote above, if I had 10 people skilled in Perl feeling more comfortable with Perl than anything else... it might be a better choice. Should've actually said that experience decides in the end... but let's just stop here already :)

by berntb 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

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viraptor 16y ago

> What you are really saying is that expressibility is bad? Almost the opposite, actually. I quite like Haskell and Scala, which can be extremely expressive (no dynamically modifiable parsers though ;) ) - but at the same time the area where you can make a mistake is minimal compared to Perl programs. Things where Perl will leave you a warning (which might get lost in other output), simply won't compile in others (for example ==/eq "problem"). On the other hand you don't need the type annotations for majority of code, so it doesn't induce the verbosity you'd get in Java or others. It all goes back to the preference in the end ;)

berntb 16y ago
Well, I would have no problems with a nice lisp variant, either. Given enough supporting libraries. Anyone that ignores warning messages will suffer. :-) Note that Perl 6 is a scripting language which can declare types. The '=='/'eq' thing is common among scripting languages. It is a detail, you find things like this in all complex packages of rules. Most scripting languages will get (some) problems with typing, especially in function parameters for the external APIs in libraries. If you use strict, you get away from some classical problems, e.g. variable name misspellings. With Moose (or other CPAN stuff), you can have powerful typing handling etc. >>It all goes back to the preference in the end ;) Let me note -- that is not where you started a few comments ago. :-)
- viraptor 16y ago
  > Let me note -- that is not where you started a few comments ago. Argh - I have to learn to stop in a good time ;) Actually what I meant is that even if though I really believe in what I wrote above, if I had 10 people skilled in Perl feeling more comfortable with Perl than anything else... it might be a better choice. Should've actually said that experience decides in the end... but let's just stop here already :)