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Everyone should be required to watch Louis Rossmann's videos before buying a MacBook. Apple has probably scammed people out of hundreds of millions of dollars j

by radcon 7y ago

Everyone should be required to watch Louis Rossmann's videos before buying a MacBook. Apple has probably scammed people out of hundreds of millions of dollars just by using fake excuses like "water damage" to avoid fixing things under warranty. For example, a computer Apple said had "been in a bathtub" when it was really just a manufacturing defect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2r-g8EaTfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2r-g8EaTfY FWIW, my experience with Dell has been the complete opposite. I complained about a couple issues with an Alienware laptop (processor whine, low battery life) and they had a tech at my house the next day with replacement parts. Probably the best service I've ever gotten on any type of product.

oflannabhra 7y ago
I just don’t like Rossman. I’m sure there are solid technical criticisms that he makes, and I personally agree that Apple is too draconian re: repairability (both in design and policy). However, I absolutely cannot trust someone who has such a financial incentive, or as deep a history of twisting facts to make Apple look bad. Beyond that, there is something entitled about earning your entire income repairing another company’s devices while also demanding they make proprietary parts and knowledge available to you. I wish there were a critic of Apple’s repair policies that had less of an agenda than Rossman.
- groovybits 7y ago
  > deep a history of twisting facts to make Apple look bad. Can you provide examples?
  - oflannabhra 7y ago
    1. In 2016, Rossman claimed that Apple was filing suit against him, and was seeking to shut down his YouTube channel. In actuality, one of his videos had shown a schematic, that Rossman illegally obtained, and Apple requested that the schematic be removed from the video. [0] 2. In 2016, Rossman claimed that Apple had a 4 Gigabyte memory chip buffer on their webcams. He speculates that this is due to a nefarious intent on Apple's part. In actuality, it is a 4 Gigabit (512 MB) chip that acts as a buffer. [1] 3. In 2018, Rossman claimed that Apple had contacted Customs and Border Protection to have his import shipment of Apple batteries seized. He claimed that they were genuine OEM batteries, maybe scavenged from old devices. [2] In actuality, the devices really were counterfeit. Rossman had contracted an OEM manufacturer to build batteries to Apple's original spec, which bore Apple's logo, most likely without Apple's knowledge. [3] [0] - https://www.gamerevolution.com/features/12677-free-speech-under-attack-youtuber-repair-specialist-louis-rossmann-alludes-to-apple-lawsuit https://www.gamerevolution.com/features/12677-free-speech-un... [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw3-j_RaX74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw3-j_RaX74 [2] - https://youtu.be/AVL65qwBGnw https://youtu.be/AVL65qwBGnw [3] - https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossmann_admits_to_using_parts_from_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossman...
    - Someone1234 7y ago
      No.1 you essentially admit, and cite, that what he claimed was accurate (that Apple threatened to sue/get his channel shut down) but you feel it was his fault. No.2 dude messed up. No disagreement there. But you are spinning his confusion into: "due to a nefarious intent on Apple's part." That wasn't the tone of the video at all. No.3 you say, and cite, that what he claimed was true (that a shipment of Apple compatible batteries he had imported was seized). In the original video he said quite clearly they weren't OEM because Apple no longer supplies these "vintage" batteries to even authorized repair centers. Here's the YT transcript (as is): > the Apple store and I say I would like to buy this battery can i buy this battery please they say no if I become an Apple authorized service provider and I wish to obtain parts to a machine that has been considered vintage Apple will say no if I talk to somebody in China who says hey these are not those knockoff batteries where we take you know where we just like put apple logos on a bunch of crappy cells and send it to you these are the good batteries these are the batteries that are responsible for us being 4.9 out of five But you said: "He claimed that they were genuine OEM batteries" the transcript above from the video you linked paints a very different picture. Your original claim was: > deep a history of twisting facts to make Apple look bad. But you haven't made that case here. Your position on the guy feels a little "cart before the horse." You dislike what the guy believes/stands for/his criticism, and then went out looking for reasons to justify that belief. Your post essentially implies he's a criminal for using "stolen" schematics to repair customer's own equipment and making compatible batteries (which, I'll fully admit, shouldn't have had the Apple logo on them: not cool).
      - bubblethink 7y ago
        >he's a criminal for using "stolen" schematics to repair customer's own equipment and making compatible batteries Sounds a lot like Terry Gilliam's Brazil.
        wetpaws 7y ago
        Life imitates art
      - oflannabhra 7y ago
- plttn 7y ago
  Honestly, I just prefer the days when he talked through repairing a computer, and wasn't standing on a soapbox while he did it. It was really relaxing and interesting to watch, but now that he's complaining about Apple half the time, it's significantly less enjoyable for me to watch.
- keanzu 7y ago
  If Apple provided a superior or even comparable service, Rossman would be out of business tomorrow. No-one wants to seek third party repair, they are driven to it.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  > Beyond that, there is something entitled about earning your entire income repairing another company’s devices while also demanding they make proprietary parts and knowledge available to you. Apple won't let third parties produce Apple compatible parts (or sell parts sold to Apple also to non-Apple repair centers). Even if Apple just got out of the way, and offered no help/supply chain, it would be a stark improvement. But instead they've been using hardware DRM to effectively make third party repairs impossible. If you replace a part with an identical part, you need Apple's software to authorize the change otherwise it won't boot.
  - benologist 7y ago
    Apple are actively fighting to prevent third parties being able to lawfully repair their devices. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-right-to-repair-consumer-harm/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-right-to-repair-c...
  - oflannabhra 7y ago
    Yep, and I totally agree that such behavior is draconian, and I disagree with Apple's stance. That doesn't change the fact that I also find Rossman entitled.
- MiroF 7y ago
  Amazing how negative a comment re: Rossman this is despite including not a single example
- turk73 7y ago
  I don't completely understand why you disklike Rossman. I think he's an archetype for a "tell it like it is" New Yorker (like me). Maybe I have a soft spot for people like him, but they're superior to the more common "asshole NYer" that have now ranged far and wide and who take advantage of people as mercilessly as possible. Rossman has it right. You're paying thousands of dollars for what amounts to an utter POS laptop. The earlier models were technical marvels and then Apple bean counters took over. But Apple needs to get on the same page with all the professionals who use their products and rely on them to make a living. How could they lose touch so badly?
  - ScottFree 7y ago
    > I think he's an archetype for a "tell it like it is" New Yorker (like me). > they're superior to the more common "asshole NYer" West Coasters don't see the distinction. California culture (and many other cultures, I'm sure) believes that making people feel bad is the ultimate social sin and should be avoided at all costs. In their eyes, "telling it like it is" makes you an asshole.
mathattack 7y ago
I had awful experiences with Dell in their “Dude you got a...” phase. It pains me that I have to use them at work just because they’re the low cost producer. I assume I’ve lost 2-3x the savings waiting for my laptop to get fixed.
- darkpuma 7y ago
  M8 the "dude dell" phase ended back in 2003; there will soon be people working in this industry that were born after it ended. That is a long time ago. Since that time, Dell has been taken private, then public again. That advertising campaign ended years before the powerbook and ibook were discontinued, before the macbook brand was created, and before Apple switched architectures to intel x86 processors.
  - mathattack 7y ago
    Yes, make me feel old. :-) This goes to show how long consumers hold grudges when brands let them down. And those consumers eventually Jin corporate purchasing departments.
eitland 7y ago
Agree, have got good service from Dell. Had lots of trouble with Dell hardware - but excellent support in most cases. (I think 25% of our Dell motherboards broke in the spring of 2006 because of a batch of bad capacitors, and I think I heard rumours that more broke after I left that place, but service was always great until recently, and I'm now so far away from hardware I don't know if it is Dells fault or the sysadmins fault in a recent case I think of.)
- darkpuma 7y ago
  > I think 25% of our Dell motherboards broke in the spring of 2006 because of a batch of bad capacitors The capacitor plague. Pretty much everybody in the industry was hit by that to at least some extent: > "Major vendors of motherboards such as Abit,[9] IBM,[1] Dell,[10] Apple, HP, and Intel[11] were affected by capacitors with faulty electrolytes. In 2005, Dell spent some US$420 million replacing motherboards outright and on the logistics of determining whether a system was in need of replacement.[12][13] Many other equipment manufacturers unknowingly assembled and sold boards with faulty capacitors, and as a result the effect of the capacitor plague could be seen in all kinds of devices worldwide. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague#Prevalence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague#Prevalence
avgDev 7y ago
It baffles me that people pay so much for an apple product but then have to go somewhere to get it serviced. I bought a Dell XPS, my keyboard was having issues, next day someone came out with a new keyboard and installed it for me at my house. Very little downtime.
- bluedino 7y ago
  Kind of like Tesla owners.
- GuB-42 7y ago
  Dell service is great for professionals. But as a consumer, chances are that you won't be home when the repair technician arrive, because it happens during work hours and you are at work. It means that going to the Apple store may be the easier option.
cassianoleal 7y ago
Funny how personal anecdotes go. Let me tell you mine with Apple. A few months ago I spilled about 300ml of water on top of my MacBook Pro. It's one of the newer models with the touchbar and the terrible butterfly keyboard (otherwise it's a fantastic machine though). The spillage happened just as I was about to finish work for the day. There was a lot of water there on top of the keyboard. It took me 5 or 6 large napkins to dry it out, even after having drained it first by leaning it sideways. I closed the laptop, put it on its case and went home for the day. Next morning I took it off the case at work and switched it on, just to find the display behaving oddly (weird colours and artefacts). After a few minutes, the display froze and I believe the whole computer did too. I force-rebooted it and the same thing happened, only this time a lot quicker. After a third time I decided to keep it shut down and head back home to get my backup computer. I made an appointment at the Apple store and took it in. I described what happened precisely, didn't leave a single detail out. They took it in, found zero water damage but acknowledged the problems. I was told it could take up to 10 days as I use a US keyboard (this happened in London) and they might not have one in stock. About 4 days later I got a call to pick it up. They had replaced the logic board and the display and cleaned up the keyboard, all free of charge. I do have Apple Care on it but if I recall correctly this was done under warranty and would have happened regardless.
- lal 7y ago
  I had a 2017 mbp, two months in, the left hook thing on the J keycap broke. It still stayed on for the most part so I was fine. The minus key was next, but both hooks broke so it just loosely flapped and fell off if the laptop was tipped. I 2-sided-taped under and it was mushy but worked. About 4 months in, the spacebar started sending double inputs like 10% of the time. I learned to watch out for it. About a year in left shift literally just stops working over the course of about a half hour. The button under the keycap is apparently just done. I use karabiner to remap (only when karabiner is running) left ctrl to left shift and caps lock to left ctrl (just using capslock as shift is painful). One OS update later I get an error message that the keyboard is unrecognized. When it finishes rebooting the remapping is now permanent for some reason and unalterable (I don't have any reason to want to though because it's the only way I can write capital letters without right shift). A year and a half in, it's working one night, then the next morning I open it and it's showing rainbowy artifacts everywhere that only appear when the screen is past like a quarter way open. I finally go to an Apple store, where they take it and basically say "yeah all of that is stuff that happens, we'll check what it is and let you know". I get notified that it will be 700$ to replace the display module which they say is at fault. I just took it back and paid 50$ for the diagnostics and bought an XPS13. Life is good. My mbp works if attached to an external monitor or projector.
bluedino 7y ago
I'd be interested in him doing a teardown of a Dell/HP/whatever brand PC laptop, and pointing out the cost cutting and poor workmanship he finds
chrischen 7y ago
My personal experience also contradicts this. Not only have I repaired the butterfly keyboard at least once on each of the new macs (every new spec bump so far) that had the new keyboards, but they almost always replace the logic board or even battery for free.

by radcon 7y ago

oflannabhra 7y ago

I just don’t like Rossman. I’m sure there are solid technical criticisms that he makes, and I personally agree that Apple is too draconian re: repairability (both in design and policy). However, I absolutely cannot trust someone who has such a financial incentive, or as deep a history of twisting facts to make Apple look bad. Beyond that, there is something entitled about earning your entire income repairing another company’s devices while also demanding they make proprietary parts and knowledge available to you. I wish there were a critic of Apple’s repair policies that had less of an agenda than Rossman.

groovybits 7y ago
> deep a history of twisting facts to make Apple look bad. Can you provide examples?
- oflannabhra 7y ago
  1. In 2016, Rossman claimed that Apple was filing suit against him, and was seeking to shut down his YouTube channel. In actuality, one of his videos had shown a schematic, that Rossman illegally obtained, and Apple requested that the schematic be removed from the video. [0] 2. In 2016, Rossman claimed that Apple had a 4 Gigabyte memory chip buffer on their webcams. He speculates that this is due to a nefarious intent on Apple's part. In actuality, it is a 4 Gigabit (512 MB) chip that acts as a buffer. [1] 3. In 2018, Rossman claimed that Apple had contacted Customs and Border Protection to have his import shipment of Apple batteries seized. He claimed that they were genuine OEM batteries, maybe scavenged from old devices. [2] In actuality, the devices really were counterfeit. Rossman had contracted an OEM manufacturer to build batteries to Apple's original spec, which bore Apple's logo, most likely without Apple's knowledge. [3] [0] - https://www.gamerevolution.com/features/12677-free-speech-under-attack-youtuber-repair-specialist-louis-rossmann-alludes-to-apple-lawsuit https://www.gamerevolution.com/features/12677-free-speech-un... [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw3-j_RaX74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw3-j_RaX74 [2] - https://youtu.be/AVL65qwBGnw https://youtu.be/AVL65qwBGnw [3] - https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossmann_admits_to_using_parts_from_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/9pow06/louis_rossman...
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    No.1 you essentially admit, and cite, that what he claimed was accurate (that Apple threatened to sue/get his channel shut down) but you feel it was his fault. No.2 dude messed up. No disagreement there. But you are spinning his confusion into: "due to a nefarious intent on Apple's part." That wasn't the tone of the video at all. No.3 you say, and cite, that what he claimed was true (that a shipment of Apple compatible batteries he had imported was seized). In the original video he said quite clearly they weren't OEM because Apple no longer supplies these "vintage" batteries to even authorized repair centers. Here's the YT transcript (as is): > the Apple store and I say I would like to buy this battery can i buy this battery please they say no if I become an Apple authorized service provider and I wish to obtain parts to a machine that has been considered vintage Apple will say no if I talk to somebody in China who says hey these are not those knockoff batteries where we take you know where we just like put apple logos on a bunch of crappy cells and send it to you these are the good batteries these are the batteries that are responsible for us being 4.9 out of five But you said: "He claimed that they were genuine OEM batteries" the transcript above from the video you linked paints a very different picture. Your original claim was: > deep a history of twisting facts to make Apple look bad. But you haven't made that case here. Your position on the guy feels a little "cart before the horse." You dislike what the guy believes/stands for/his criticism, and then went out looking for reasons to justify that belief. Your post essentially implies he's a criminal for using "stolen" schematics to repair customer's own equipment and making compatible batteries (which, I'll fully admit, shouldn't have had the Apple logo on them: not cool).
    - bubblethink 7y ago
      >he's a criminal for using "stolen" schematics to repair customer's own equipment and making compatible batteries Sounds a lot like Terry Gilliam's Brazil.
      - wetpaws 7y ago
        Life imitates art
    - oflannabhra 7y ago
plttn 7y ago
Honestly, I just prefer the days when he talked through repairing a computer, and wasn't standing on a soapbox while he did it. It was really relaxing and interesting to watch, but now that he's complaining about Apple half the time, it's significantly less enjoyable for me to watch.
keanzu 7y ago
If Apple provided a superior or even comparable service, Rossman would be out of business tomorrow. No-one wants to seek third party repair, they are driven to it.
Someone1234 7y ago
> Beyond that, there is something entitled about earning your entire income repairing another company’s devices while also demanding they make proprietary parts and knowledge available to you. Apple won't let third parties produce Apple compatible parts (or sell parts sold to Apple also to non-Apple repair centers). Even if Apple just got out of the way, and offered no help/supply chain, it would be a stark improvement. But instead they've been using hardware DRM to effectively make third party repairs impossible. If you replace a part with an identical part, you need Apple's software to authorize the change otherwise it won't boot.
- benologist 7y ago
  Apple are actively fighting to prevent third parties being able to lawfully repair their devices. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-right-to-repair-consumer-harm/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-right-to-repair-c...
- oflannabhra 7y ago
  Yep, and I totally agree that such behavior is draconian, and I disagree with Apple's stance. That doesn't change the fact that I also find Rossman entitled.
MiroF 7y ago
Amazing how negative a comment re: Rossman this is despite including not a single example
turk73 7y ago
I don't completely understand why you disklike Rossman. I think he's an archetype for a "tell it like it is" New Yorker (like me). Maybe I have a soft spot for people like him, but they're superior to the more common "asshole NYer" that have now ranged far and wide and who take advantage of people as mercilessly as possible. Rossman has it right. You're paying thousands of dollars for what amounts to an utter POS laptop. The earlier models were technical marvels and then Apple bean counters took over. But Apple needs to get on the same page with all the professionals who use their products and rely on them to make a living. How could they lose touch so badly?
- ScottFree 7y ago
  > I think he's an archetype for a "tell it like it is" New Yorker (like me). > they're superior to the more common "asshole NYer" West Coasters don't see the distinction. California culture (and many other cultures, I'm sure) believes that making people feel bad is the ultimate social sin and should be avoided at all costs. In their eyes, "telling it like it is" makes you an asshole.

mathattack 7y ago

I had awful experiences with Dell in their “Dude you got a...” phase. It pains me that I have to use them at work just because they’re the low cost producer. I assume I’ve lost 2-3x the savings waiting for my laptop to get fixed.

darkpuma 7y ago
M8 the "dude dell" phase ended back in 2003; there will soon be people working in this industry that were born after it ended. That is a long time ago. Since that time, Dell has been taken private, then public again. That advertising campaign ended years before the powerbook and ibook were discontinued, before the macbook brand was created, and before Apple switched architectures to intel x86 processors.
- mathattack 7y ago
  Yes, make me feel old. :-) This goes to show how long consumers hold grudges when brands let them down. And those consumers eventually Jin corporate purchasing departments.

eitland 7y ago

Agree, have got good service from Dell. Had lots of trouble with Dell hardware - but excellent support in most cases. (I think 25% of our Dell motherboards broke in the spring of 2006 because of a batch of bad capacitors, and I think I heard rumours that more broke after I left that place, but service was always great until recently, and I'm now so far away from hardware I don't know if it is Dells fault or the sysadmins fault in a recent case I think of.)

darkpuma 7y ago
> I think 25% of our Dell motherboards broke in the spring of 2006 because of a batch of bad capacitors The capacitor plague. Pretty much everybody in the industry was hit by that to at least some extent: > "Major vendors of motherboards such as Abit,[9] IBM,[1] Dell,[10] Apple, HP, and Intel[11] were affected by capacitors with faulty electrolytes. In 2005, Dell spent some US$420 million replacing motherboards outright and on the logistics of determining whether a system was in need of replacement.[12][13] Many other equipment manufacturers unknowingly assembled and sold boards with faulty capacitors, and as a result the effect of the capacitor plague could be seen in all kinds of devices worldwide. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague#Prevalence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague#Prevalence

avgDev 7y ago

It baffles me that people pay so much for an apple product but then have to go somewhere to get it serviced. I bought a Dell XPS, my keyboard was having issues, next day someone came out with a new keyboard and installed it for me at my house. Very little downtime.

bluedino 7y ago
Kind of like Tesla owners.
GuB-42 7y ago
Dell service is great for professionals. But as a consumer, chances are that you won't be home when the repair technician arrive, because it happens during work hours and you are at work. It means that going to the Apple store may be the easier option.

cassianoleal 7y ago

Funny how personal anecdotes go. Let me tell you mine with Apple. A few months ago I spilled about 300ml of water on top of my MacBook Pro. It's one of the newer models with the touchbar and the terrible butterfly keyboard (otherwise it's a fantastic machine though). The spillage happened just as I was about to finish work for the day. There was a lot of water there on top of the keyboard. It took me 5 or 6 large napkins to dry it out, even after having drained it first by leaning it sideways. I closed the laptop, put it on its case and went home for the day. Next morning I took it off the case at work and switched it on, just to find the display behaving oddly (weird colours and artefacts). After a few minutes, the display froze and I believe the whole computer did too. I force-rebooted it and the same thing happened, only this time a lot quicker. After a third time I decided to keep it shut down and head back home to get my backup computer. I made an appointment at the Apple store and took it in. I described what happened precisely, didn't leave a single detail out. They took it in, found zero water damage but acknowledged the problems. I was told it could take up to 10 days as I use a US keyboard (this happened in London) and they might not have one in stock. About 4 days later I got a call to pick it up. They had replaced the logic board and the display and cleaned up the keyboard, all free of charge. I do have Apple Care on it but if I recall correctly this was done under warranty and would have happened regardless.

lal 7y ago
I had a 2017 mbp, two months in, the left hook thing on the J keycap broke. It still stayed on for the most part so I was fine. The minus key was next, but both hooks broke so it just loosely flapped and fell off if the laptop was tipped. I 2-sided-taped under and it was mushy but worked. About 4 months in, the spacebar started sending double inputs like 10% of the time. I learned to watch out for it. About a year in left shift literally just stops working over the course of about a half hour. The button under the keycap is apparently just done. I use karabiner to remap (only when karabiner is running) left ctrl to left shift and caps lock to left ctrl (just using capslock as shift is painful). One OS update later I get an error message that the keyboard is unrecognized. When it finishes rebooting the remapping is now permanent for some reason and unalterable (I don't have any reason to want to though because it's the only way I can write capital letters without right shift). A year and a half in, it's working one night, then the next morning I open it and it's showing rainbowy artifacts everywhere that only appear when the screen is past like a quarter way open. I finally go to an Apple store, where they take it and basically say "yeah all of that is stuff that happens, we'll check what it is and let you know". I get notified that it will be 700$ to replace the display module which they say is at fault. I just took it back and paid 50$ for the diagnostics and bought an XPS13. Life is good. My mbp works if attached to an external monitor or projector.

bluedino 7y ago

I'd be interested in him doing a teardown of a Dell/HP/whatever brand PC laptop, and pointing out the cost cutting and poor workmanship he finds

chrischen 7y ago

My personal experience also contradicts this. Not only have I repaired the butterfly keyboard at least once on each of the new macs (every new spec bump so far) that had the new keyboards, but they almost always replace the logic board or even battery for free.