7 ms·

I live in a small european city, and thus we bought a second hand "Renault Twizy" with my SO. It's a small car: 2 seater, 80km of range, and a top speed of 110

by Faaak 7y ago

I live in a small european city, and thus we bought a second hand "Renault Twizy" with my SO. It's a small car: 2 seater, 80km of range, and a top speed of 110 km/hour (when modded) on the highway. People always think it's a stupid choice: "But it's slow; but you can't go far with it". The reality is that it's perfect for us: there's no maintenance (apart from the wheels, as the regen is top notch) and it fits everywhere. We rarely do more than 80km round-trip anyways. And when we do (maybe twice a year), then we rent a car for ~80CHF. The charge is quick (3hours), and cheap (1CHF for 6kWh). I love it

wil421 7y ago
A lot of people would not buy an electric car if it meant they would have to rent a car to do long trips. Why would I pay for a car and then have to rent another car? My wife and I need a car that can travel 6 hours (350+ miles\550km) 3-5 times a year. There is a super charger out of the way where my wife’s sister goes to college. It would make a 20-30 bearable so we can make the journey with some charge leftover. One of our vacation spots has a destination charger at an Embassy Suites nearby. Its likely too busy on holidays to use. Tesla Model 3 is the only one that fits our needs and budget. I’m very carious about a Tesla and we might end up with a Q5 instead.
- archi42 7y ago
  I have a hybrid (2013 Volvo V60 D6), and I really like the car itself with it's three modes, Pure, Hybrid and Power (Pure feels like a BEV with a tiny 40km battery; Hybrid is mostly like my previous car, just 15 years younger; Power is pretty pointless for daily driving, but it's quite fun to "feel" the combined 285hp). BUT: Every single time I drive on Diesel, I feel like I should have gone with a pure electric car: Driving on battery just has a much better feel to it. That's with a 70hp electric engine (not much for a 2t car) and a really well behaved 215hp diesel engine (it only "roars" when it delivers a lot of power, but during normal driving it's calm). The point is: Don't go with the Q5 Hybrid if you can avoid it ;-) If you can afford it, maybe lease a cheap/nice car for a year (or two) and see what the BEV market has to offer then. You won't regret it (and worst case: Save some money by buying a Q5 as leasing return).
  - wil421 7y ago
    It would be nice to wait for the Audi EV offerings. I might have 12 months to wait but with a baby on the way I need a reliable car. Our 2004 Corolla is on its way out.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    some diesels can be quite nice. I had a golf tdi for a while. the engine was basically silent at highway speeds, and it was honestly a bit better for city driving than my hot hatch. too bad it turned out to be illegal. I agree with you on the Q5 though, but only because it's too big.
- Faaak 7y ago
  > Why would I pay for a car and then have to rent another car? In my case (and as said in the article): because electric cars (at least mine which was second-hand) are cheap and maintenance free.
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  > Why would I pay for a car and then have to rent another car? I had a miser of an uncle that did lots of long road trips, but always rented cars for them, once impressionably do a back of an envelope costs breakdown of putting long road trip mileage on a personal vehicle versus per-trip rentals. Even assuming both cars got equivalent mileage (my uncle was doing math with comparable ICE sedans two decades ago or so), the maintenance subsidy of dipping into a rental fleet was much cheaper than the long term maintenance cost on a personal vehicle. Even if you think my uncle's math was off one way or the other, I feel like it should be pointed out that "rent a car for long trips" isn't a new attitude unique to electric vehicle owners, and people have advocated it for a long time. Similarly, my current employer and at least one of my past employers highly discourages using personal vehicles for long work trips, and beyond just the obvious liability issues, such employers have made sure to point out very similar logic to my uncle's that the increased miles on your vehicle is rarely worth the long term maintenance costs when rental companies have cheaper maintenance costs, because they scale maintenance across a fleet rather than a single vehicle charged "retail" costs.
  - arbitrary_name 7y ago
    Yes, but loaded in the rental car cost besides a profit margin is a wide range of other costs not borne by a private vehicle owner. I understand the broad concept but focusing on maintenance costs seems a bit odd when you are footing the bill for sales, marketing, rent etc. Whether these outweigh the cost efficiencies of fleet maintenance is an interesting question, though.
  - danbolt 7y ago
    I live in a larger North American city and short-term rentals via companies like Car2Go are much more cost-effective than owning a car for me. Given, I'm childless in a city and rent so I could understand why a parent would potentially want one where I live.
  - Gibbon1 7y ago
    I know multiple people that own a car and will rent something for long trips. A lot of that is for peace of mind and being able to rent exactly what they need. Peace of mind is they don't worry the car will break down. And they can rent a car that is large enough or small enough for that particular trip. One trip it's them for a weekend. Other trip it's them and four other people for a week. I've noticed that people that do this tend not to be 'car people'
- derekp7 7y ago
  Most car owners have no problem renting a vehicle on a trip, at least when they fly out somewhere. Trips almost 100% renting (hotel room, chef services [restaurants], seat on the plane, car, limo to/from airport). Once in that mindset, it is much easier to rent a car for shorter trips.
- Slimbo 7y ago
  > Why would I pay for a car and then have to rent another car? Because it makes sense to do it this way financially. I live very close to work, and commute about 10 miles a day. Once or twice a year I want to drive a few hundred miles, so it makes much more sense to rent a long range car for this than buy one.
  - OJFord 7y ago
    I don't think GP was criticising you - it makes perfect sense. 'Most people' just wouldn't consider it, or would do something that makes less sense anyway.
fit2rule 7y ago
>"But it's slow; but you can't go far with it" I ride an electric moped, which has the exact affliction as described - but here in Vienna, this is of no consequence. I am constantly catching up with the fast overpowered auto's on the road, sitting at the lights, and maneuver in front of them regardless of how fast they overtook me at the previous stop. Its really a rabbit/tortoise situation - and in the end, I get to the same destinations in the same time frame, albeit with a drastically reduced carbon footprint, since I charge my batteries from solar ... I think once people get a taste of electric transportation, especially mopeds/bikes, it becomes very clear: the future is electric. Personally, I'll take slow electric over internal combustion any day. Its a huge improvement in life quality.

by Faaak 7y ago

wil421 7y ago

A lot of people would not buy an electric car if it meant they would have to rent a car to do long trips. Why would I pay for a car and then have to rent another car? My wife and I need a car that can travel 6 hours (350+ miles\550km) 3-5 times a year. There is a super charger out of the way where my wife’s sister goes to college. It would make a 20-30 bearable so we can make the journey with some charge leftover. One of our vacation spots has a destination charger at an Embassy Suites nearby. Its likely too busy on holidays to use. Tesla Model 3 is the only one that fits our needs and budget. I’m very carious about a Tesla and we might end up with a Q5 instead.

archi42 7y ago
I have a hybrid (2013 Volvo V60 D6), and I really like the car itself with it's three modes, Pure, Hybrid and Power (Pure feels like a BEV with a tiny 40km battery; Hybrid is mostly like my previous car, just 15 years younger; Power is pretty pointless for daily driving, but it's quite fun to "feel" the combined 285hp). BUT: Every single time I drive on Diesel, I feel like I should have gone with a pure electric car: Driving on battery just has a much better feel to it. That's with a 70hp electric engine (not much for a 2t car) and a really well behaved 215hp diesel engine (it only "roars" when it delivers a lot of power, but during normal driving it's calm). The point is: Don't go with the Q5 Hybrid if you can avoid it ;-) If you can afford it, maybe lease a cheap/nice car for a year (or two) and see what the BEV market has to offer then. You won't regret it (and worst case: Save some money by buying a Q5 as leasing return).
- wil421 7y ago
  It would be nice to wait for the Audi EV offerings. I might have 12 months to wait but with a baby on the way I need a reliable car. Our 2004 Corolla is on its way out.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  some diesels can be quite nice. I had a golf tdi for a while. the engine was basically silent at highway speeds, and it was honestly a bit better for city driving than my hot hatch. too bad it turned out to be illegal. I agree with you on the Q5 though, but only because it's too big.
Faaak 7y ago
> Why would I pay for a car and then have to rent another car? In my case (and as said in the article): because electric cars (at least mine which was second-hand) are cheap and maintenance free.
WorldMaker 7y ago
> Why would I pay for a car and then have to rent another car? I had a miser of an uncle that did lots of long road trips, but always rented cars for them, once impressionably do a back of an envelope costs breakdown of putting long road trip mileage on a personal vehicle versus per-trip rentals. Even assuming both cars got equivalent mileage (my uncle was doing math with comparable ICE sedans two decades ago or so), the maintenance subsidy of dipping into a rental fleet was much cheaper than the long term maintenance cost on a personal vehicle. Even if you think my uncle's math was off one way or the other, I feel like it should be pointed out that "rent a car for long trips" isn't a new attitude unique to electric vehicle owners, and people have advocated it for a long time. Similarly, my current employer and at least one of my past employers highly discourages using personal vehicles for long work trips, and beyond just the obvious liability issues, such employers have made sure to point out very similar logic to my uncle's that the increased miles on your vehicle is rarely worth the long term maintenance costs when rental companies have cheaper maintenance costs, because they scale maintenance across a fleet rather than a single vehicle charged "retail" costs.
- arbitrary_name 7y ago
  Yes, but loaded in the rental car cost besides a profit margin is a wide range of other costs not borne by a private vehicle owner. I understand the broad concept but focusing on maintenance costs seems a bit odd when you are footing the bill for sales, marketing, rent etc. Whether these outweigh the cost efficiencies of fleet maintenance is an interesting question, though.
- danbolt 7y ago
  I live in a larger North American city and short-term rentals via companies like Car2Go are much more cost-effective than owning a car for me. Given, I'm childless in a city and rent so I could understand why a parent would potentially want one where I live.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  I know multiple people that own a car and will rent something for long trips. A lot of that is for peace of mind and being able to rent exactly what they need. Peace of mind is they don't worry the car will break down. And they can rent a car that is large enough or small enough for that particular trip. One trip it's them for a weekend. Other trip it's them and four other people for a week. I've noticed that people that do this tend not to be 'car people'
derekp7 7y ago
Most car owners have no problem renting a vehicle on a trip, at least when they fly out somewhere. Trips almost 100% renting (hotel room, chef services [restaurants], seat on the plane, car, limo to/from airport). Once in that mindset, it is much easier to rent a car for shorter trips.
Slimbo 7y ago
> Why would I pay for a car and then have to rent another car? Because it makes sense to do it this way financially. I live very close to work, and commute about 10 miles a day. Once or twice a year I want to drive a few hundred miles, so it makes much more sense to rent a long range car for this than buy one.
- OJFord 7y ago
  I don't think GP was criticising you - it makes perfect sense. 'Most people' just wouldn't consider it, or would do something that makes less sense anyway.

fit2rule 7y ago

>"But it's slow; but you can't go far with it" I ride an electric moped, which has the exact affliction as described - but here in Vienna, this is of no consequence. I am constantly catching up with the fast overpowered auto's on the road, sitting at the lights, and maneuver in front of them regardless of how fast they overtook me at the previous stop. Its really a rabbit/tortoise situation - and in the end, I get to the same destinations in the same time frame, albeit with a drastically reduced carbon footprint, since I charge my batteries from solar ... I think once people get a taste of electric transportation, especially mopeds/bikes, it becomes very clear: the future is electric. Personally, I'll take slow electric over internal combustion any day. Its a huge improvement in life quality.