3 ms·

You don't see a problem with aborting because of the "wrong" gender? I don't know if you got the memo, but equal rights is a pretty Big Thing lately. I'm pret

by codr7 7y ago

You don't see a problem with aborting because of the "wrong" gender? I don't know if you got the memo, but equal rights is a pretty Big Thing lately. I'm pretty sure most mothers would have preferred to keep all their children, and a society without women isn't going very far.

Shivetya 7y ago
No. Before I get pummeled for that just be honest here. As soon as we state it is okay to abort for personal choice the discussion ends there. Why do we get to call in the woman's choice simply because we don't like the reason. It will get to be seriously interesting if DNA testing comes common place and women or couples decide to abort for reasons from sex, skin color, and if ever proven genetic orientation. You cannot have it both ways. Either the woman is in control of her reproductive process or she is not. There is no, but....
- patwolf 7y ago
  I think that's completely intellectually honest to say that if you value woman's choice at all costs, then you can't really be too upset at this outcome. You could also argue that this is basically eugenics--selectively breeding/aborting to get a desirable trait, which in this case is sex. That's one of the reasons why abortion is so contentious. To some personal freedom and choice outweigh any negative consequence to society. To others the well-being of society outweighs personal freedom. It's the same reason why gun ownership and drug use is contentious.
- mcphage 7y ago
  > As soon as we state it is okay to abort for personal choice the discussion ends there. Why do we get to call in the woman's choice simply because we don't like the reason. It is incredibly common where you can do something for almost any—or no—reason, but that doesn't mean you can do it for a bad reason. For instance, in the US: a business can refuse service to anyone. But, that doesn't mean they can refuse service to someone because they are black. If you live in certain states, your company can fire you at will, for no reason whatsoever. But they can't fire you because you're a woman.
- rayiner 7y ago
  Well that doesn’t follow. Intent always matters. There are a lot of things that are legal if some for no reason at all, but illegal if some for specific impermissible reasons (firing and hiring come to mind, serving someone at a restaurant or hotel).
- teshier-A 7y ago
  "Until the 14th week of pregnancy, baby boys and girls look exactly the same on ultrasound" [0] "Most countries in the European Union allow abortion on demand during the first trimester, with Sweden, the UK and the Netherlands having more extended time limits. After the first trimester (Ed : after 12 weeks), abortion is generally allowed only under certain circumstances, such as risk to woman's life or health, fetal defects or other specific situations that may be related to the circumstances of the conception or the woman's age." [1] 0 - https://www.livescience.com/45582-boy-or-girl.html https://www.livescience.com/45582-boy-or-girl.html 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law#Europe
PasserBy2020 7y ago
Yeah, but this is about equal obligations. We are nowhere near it with men bearing most of the burden.
exo762 7y ago
It's not the child. It's a fetus. It does not have rights that trump the right of the mother to abort. Also, if having a son is so important for them, there is a reason for that. We are talking about very poor people. Whole thing is about their material well-being!
- codr7 7y ago
  But the mother would have most likely chosen otherwise given a chance. The reason having a son is so important to them is that they're treated like shit and forced to work their ass off to survive. None of this is fine, it all has to change if we want to go anywhere worth going.
- anecdotalShit 7y ago
  Pretty sure we should target those reasons which enable those with sons to have better economic wellbeing then. Your offspring's gender should not determine your economic potential unless you livebin a dowry system or only have a manual labor workforce
sametmax 7y ago
It's assuming abortion. I doubt most families from those villages have access to a facilities to allow the procedure, not to mention the equipment to detect the baby gender in the first 3 months of pregnancy. I'd imagine it's either very late abortion, or straight post delivery murder. Which is more problematic.

by codr7 7y ago

Shivetya 7y ago

No. Before I get pummeled for that just be honest here. As soon as we state it is okay to abort for personal choice the discussion ends there. Why do we get to call in the woman's choice simply because we don't like the reason. It will get to be seriously interesting if DNA testing comes common place and women or couples decide to abort for reasons from sex, skin color, and if ever proven genetic orientation. You cannot have it both ways. Either the woman is in control of her reproductive process or she is not. There is no, but....

patwolf 7y ago
I think that's completely intellectually honest to say that if you value woman's choice at all costs, then you can't really be too upset at this outcome. You could also argue that this is basically eugenics--selectively breeding/aborting to get a desirable trait, which in this case is sex. That's one of the reasons why abortion is so contentious. To some personal freedom and choice outweigh any negative consequence to society. To others the well-being of society outweighs personal freedom. It's the same reason why gun ownership and drug use is contentious.
mcphage 7y ago
> As soon as we state it is okay to abort for personal choice the discussion ends there. Why do we get to call in the woman's choice simply because we don't like the reason. It is incredibly common where you can do something for almost any—or no—reason, but that doesn't mean you can do it for a bad reason. For instance, in the US: a business can refuse service to anyone. But, that doesn't mean they can refuse service to someone because they are black. If you live in certain states, your company can fire you at will, for no reason whatsoever. But they can't fire you because you're a woman.
rayiner 7y ago
Well that doesn’t follow. Intent always matters. There are a lot of things that are legal if some for no reason at all, but illegal if some for specific impermissible reasons (firing and hiring come to mind, serving someone at a restaurant or hotel).
teshier-A 7y ago
"Until the 14th week of pregnancy, baby boys and girls look exactly the same on ultrasound" [0] "Most countries in the European Union allow abortion on demand during the first trimester, with Sweden, the UK and the Netherlands having more extended time limits. After the first trimester (Ed : after 12 weeks), abortion is generally allowed only under certain circumstances, such as risk to woman's life or health, fetal defects or other specific situations that may be related to the circumstances of the conception or the woman's age." [1] 0 - https://www.livescience.com/45582-boy-or-girl.html https://www.livescience.com/45582-boy-or-girl.html 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law#Europe

PasserBy2020 7y ago

Yeah, but this is about equal obligations. We are nowhere near it with men bearing most of the burden.

exo762 7y ago

It's not the child. It's a fetus. It does not have rights that trump the right of the mother to abort. Also, if having a son is so important for them, there is a reason for that. We are talking about very poor people. Whole thing is about their material well-being!

codr7 7y ago
But the mother would have most likely chosen otherwise given a chance. The reason having a son is so important to them is that they're treated like shit and forced to work their ass off to survive. None of this is fine, it all has to change if we want to go anywhere worth going.
anecdotalShit 7y ago
Pretty sure we should target those reasons which enable those with sons to have better economic wellbeing then. Your offspring's gender should not determine your economic potential unless you livebin a dowry system or only have a manual labor workforce

sametmax 7y ago

It's assuming abortion. I doubt most families from those villages have access to a facilities to allow the procedure, not to mention the equipment to detect the baby gender in the first 3 months of pregnancy. I'd imagine it's either very late abortion, or straight post delivery murder. Which is more problematic.