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I don't get why you're downvoted. You're telling the truth about human rights abuses. Who the hell finds this objectionable? I guess the "head underwater" th

I don't get why you're downvoted. You're telling the truth about human rights abuses. Who the hell finds this objectionable? I guess the "head underwater" thing is a little extreme but there are people getting the shit kicked out of then right now for peacefully protesting in favour of democracy.

CamperBob2 7y ago
Who the hell finds this objectionable? The Chinese?
- turndown 7y ago
  The Chinese != CPC.
  - est 7y ago
    That does mean Chinese people and CPC are mutual exclusive. In fact 20million of Chinese are CPC members.
remarkEon 7y ago
>...until they come up a Democracy. The United States has been pushing countries heads underwater "until they come up a democracy" for, what, 60 years now? We don't exactly have a track record of success - far from it. In the most recent iterations, the countries in question have spiraled into abject chaos, from which they are just now (barely) emerging. I would really hate to see what a chaotic China would look like, and indeed how that regime would behave if they truly felt like they had nothing left to lose. "Democracy at all costs" has become this very dangerous ethos, that needs to have it's day in court. >but there are people getting the shit kicked out of then right now for peacefully protesting in favour of democracy. So what. People get the shit kicked out of them in actual democracies for protesting all the time. Follow this through to its logical conclusion in China, and the body count gets a lot higher than a few skull fractures and broken bones.
- a1369209993 7y ago
  It worked pretty well for Germany and Japan. Although that sets a rather high bar for the necessary level of pedal percussive feces removal.
  - remarkEon 7y ago
    Well, sure, it did work well for Germany and Japan - for reasons that should be plainly obvious. But you could never apply that model to e.g. Afghanistan, and anyone who is trying to sell that model is a liar who probably has something to gain through more toiling in the darkness overthere.
- mycall 7y ago
  Imagine what the world would be like today if United States didn't try to democratize the world for 60 years.
  - analognoise 7y ago
    Yeah it worked on Germany and Japan. South Korea is a super important ally. Taiwan also. We screwed up South America pretty good. Gotta admit that. Also gotta admit our approach to the Middle East was totally FUBAR. I'd be a nationalist if I hung a "Mission Accomplished" banner on South America and the Middle East. Nope. Those are clearly failures. But to say we had no successes in spreading democracy and stability, in what can be retarded as humanity's golden era, is ridiculous. We've made mistakes. Yup. Lots of them. We've also had stunning successes. Want more successes and less failures? Participate, vote, protest. Keep accountability. Don't fall for the "we're number 1!" shit. Don't buy "American exceptionalism" as a reason to stay home and do nothing. It takes work. Constant work.

CamperBob2 7y ago

Who the hell finds this objectionable? The Chinese?

turndown 7y ago
The Chinese != CPC.
- est 7y ago
  That does mean Chinese people and CPC are mutual exclusive. In fact 20million of Chinese are CPC members.

remarkEon 7y ago

>...until they come up a Democracy. The United States has been pushing countries heads underwater "until they come up a democracy" for, what, 60 years now? We don't exactly have a track record of success - far from it. In the most recent iterations, the countries in question have spiraled into abject chaos, from which they are just now (barely) emerging. I would really hate to see what a chaotic China would look like, and indeed how that regime would behave if they truly felt like they had nothing left to lose. "Democracy at all costs" has become this very dangerous ethos, that needs to have it's day in court. >but there are people getting the shit kicked out of then right now for peacefully protesting in favour of democracy. So what. People get the shit kicked out of them in actual democracies for protesting all the time. Follow this through to its logical conclusion in China, and the body count gets a lot higher than a few skull fractures and broken bones.

a1369209993 7y ago
It worked pretty well for Germany and Japan. Although that sets a rather high bar for the necessary level of pedal percussive feces removal.
- remarkEon 7y ago
  Well, sure, it did work well for Germany and Japan - for reasons that should be plainly obvious. But you could never apply that model to e.g. Afghanistan, and anyone who is trying to sell that model is a liar who probably has something to gain through more toiling in the darkness overthere.
mycall 7y ago
Imagine what the world would be like today if United States didn't try to democratize the world for 60 years.
- analognoise 7y ago
  Yeah it worked on Germany and Japan. South Korea is a super important ally. Taiwan also. We screwed up South America pretty good. Gotta admit that. Also gotta admit our approach to the Middle East was totally FUBAR. I'd be a nationalist if I hung a "Mission Accomplished" banner on South America and the Middle East. Nope. Those are clearly failures. But to say we had no successes in spreading democracy and stability, in what can be retarded as humanity's golden era, is ridiculous. We've made mistakes. Yup. Lots of them. We've also had stunning successes. Want more successes and less failures? Participate, vote, protest. Keep accountability. Don't fall for the "we're number 1!" shit. Don't buy "American exceptionalism" as a reason to stay home and do nothing. It takes work. Constant work.