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So... the linked article doesn't really limit itself to public universities when offering examples of free speech issues. Haidt talks about Oberlin (favorably);

So... the linked article doesn't really limit itself to public universities when offering examples of free speech issues. Haidt talks about Oberlin (favorably); they're a private college. Brown University is cited as an example of chilling free speech later on; Brown is, of course, private. The FIRE database cited -- https://www.thefire.org/research/disinvitation-database/ https://www.thefire.org/research/disinvitation-database/ -- also doesn't make the distinction between public and private. They do leave out religious institutions. I'm sincerely not trying to play gotcha games here; I'm suggesting that your perceptions may have been shaped by a very convincing publicity campaign over the course of decades. I spent some time with this dataset today (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eeTHZQOh9faZ2P3C_O3sVBuRAG1LzIZnsq6LB50NUHk/edit#gid=122618086 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eeTHZQOh9faZ2P3C_O3s...) just for the sake of resetting my perceptions and validating how I felt. It was a pretty useful exercise. And, finally, the Princeton Review list of the most conservative student populations in the US: https://www.princetonreview.com/college-rankings?rankings=most-conservative-students https://www.princetonreview.com/college-rankings?rankings=mo... That's a survey, doesn't touch on faculty attitudes, and is no doubt flawed in other ways. But man, I went to college at a state school in a rural state. It's fascinating how quickly people assume that UC Berkeley is the typical public university.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
> I'm suggesting that your perceptions may have been shaped by a very convincing publicity campaign over the course of decades. In my argument, I assumed that wasn't possible, because the press leans left, and therefore would not be amenable to selling a "very convincing publicity campaign over the course of decades" if that campaign favored the right. I recognize that that's an argument, not data. Looking at the FIRE data, there was a large predominance of "from the left" challenges (whether successful or not, whether at a public school or not) in 2016 and 2017. It moved back toward (not all the way to) even in 2018 and 2019. So maybe it was just a temporary thing? Or maybe the right learned how to play the game better?
- BryantD 7y ago
  Also worth noting that the FIRE data and the other source I found aren't measuring the same thing -- one is speaking engagements, one is professors getting fired/not promoted. (Thanks, btw, this is a cordial exchange of views and info even though we disagree.)

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

> I'm suggesting that your perceptions may have been shaped by a very convincing publicity campaign over the course of decades. In my argument, I assumed that wasn't possible, because the press leans left, and therefore would not be amenable to selling a "very convincing publicity campaign over the course of decades" if that campaign favored the right. I recognize that that's an argument, not data. Looking at the FIRE data, there was a large predominance of "from the left" challenges (whether successful or not, whether at a public school or not) in 2016 and 2017. It moved back toward (not all the way to) even in 2018 and 2019. So maybe it was just a temporary thing? Or maybe the right learned how to play the game better?

BryantD 7y ago
Also worth noting that the FIRE data and the other source I found aren't measuring the same thing -- one is speaking engagements, one is professors getting fired/not promoted. (Thanks, btw, this is a cordial exchange of views and info even though we disagree.)