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In the 80s it was "the Japanese are eating our lunch". Now it's "the Indians and Chinese are eating our lunch". In the 30s, it'll be "the Africans are eating ou

by ajays 16y ago

In the 80s it was "the Japanese are eating our lunch". Now it's "the Indians and Chinese are eating our lunch". In the 30s, it'll be "the Africans are eating our lunch". Every couple of decades the scare brigade starts clamoring in the US. The US survived the Europeans, the Japanese, etc. eating its lunch; it will survive the Chinese and Indians too. The US has something that none of its competitors do: a free and open society, where entrepreneurs can flourish. I have Chinese friends who went back to China and started companies in China; but they made sure that they had kids here first, so that the kids could be American citizens when they grow up. Were it not for the PRC's protectionist policies, many (most?) of the Chinese "success stories" would not have happened. This is not to say that the US doesn't need to do more. We need to spend more on our universities, our schools and our infrastructure. We need more stress on science and math, and less arguing about "intelligent design". Keep the friggin religion out of our schools, let the kids learn.

omouse 16y ago
The US has something that none of its competitors do: a free and open society, where entrepreneurs can flourish. I'm impressed that you can say that when the US operates Guantanamo Bay and is actively trying to prosecute Julian Assange of the Wikileaks organization. Not to mention the DMCA, the Patriot Act and all these other laws/organizations designed to constrain the rights of its citizens. Were it not for the PRC's protectionist policies, many (most?) of the Chinese "success stories" would not have happened. Those policies work. It sounds like the US should put them into place since they work.
- ajays 16y ago
  The US has 308 million people. A society this big will have outliers; Gitmo being one of them. And last I checked, Assange was _not_ in the US. And the ones who are 'actively trying to prosecute Assange' are the _Swedes_ and the Brits; not the US. The protectionist policies absolutely don't work beyond a small point. If they worked, then Baidu would be the number 1 search engine in Japan, Korea, Russia, etc. Is it? A (protectionist) wall may keep the outsiders out; but it also keeps the insiders in....
  - chc 16y ago
    I don't think anyone really believes the Swedes and the Brits are acting independently of the US on this one. But it all seems beside the point, since none of this has to do with business.
  - binaryfinery 16y ago
    "A (protectionist) wall may keep the outsiders out; but it also keeps the insiders in...." As opposed to our policy, which is to give hundreds of billions of dollars to China every year. That's working out so well! Or are you one of these people that doesnt believe that empires fall, or that an empire can fall simply because it runs out of money?
flacon 16y ago
Great points. My comment below was along a similar vein.
binaryfinery 16y ago
Ah yes, the "Rome will stand forever" argument. No, wait, it was the "Mongol Empire shall stand forever". No, thats not it. "The Macedonian Empire shall stand forever". Hmm. Or was it "The Holy Roman Empire shall stand forever". No wait, it was the "British Empire shall rule the waves forever". No, I got it, its "The USA shall rule forever!"
igravious 16y ago
Hi there, Some things to think about: The European Union is wealthier[1] than the US; Europe as a whole is far wealthier. You are assuming that a free and open society is a necessary condition for entrepreneurship, innovation, and thus wealth creation. This may not be the case, certainly it has never been proven. Furthermore, you speak about free and open in absolute terms though of course these concepts are relative concepts and cut across many categories. Slavoj Zizek (a European philosopher) has questioned[2] this unspoken connection - as have many others. The idea now is that capitalism with Asian features (by which is meant a capitalist system that does not go hand in hand with multi-party democracy) might actually be more efficient and more voracious than Western style capitalism. Given the laws passed by congress in the last 10 years you would have to be deaf and blind not to have noticed the increasing hostility[3] towards liberty and openness in the US. In no particular order you have: pervasive wiretapping, the USA PATRIOT act, humiliation at the border, the executive assassination program (of US citizens!), largest prison population in the world in percentage and absolute terms, to name but a few off the top of my head. I think the US needs to do a little bit more than just rearranging deck-chairs on what ostensibly looks like a ship in danger of sinking. [1] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html?countryName=European%20Union&countryCode=ee&regionCode=eu&rank=1#ee https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... [2] http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/living-end-times-slavoj-zizek/ http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/living-end-times-slavoj-zizek... [3] http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=civilliberties&ordering=beginDate+descending&timeperiod= http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=civillib...

by ajays 16y ago

omouse 16y ago

The US has something that none of its competitors do: a free and open society, where entrepreneurs can flourish. I'm impressed that you can say that when the US operates Guantanamo Bay and is actively trying to prosecute Julian Assange of the Wikileaks organization. Not to mention the DMCA, the Patriot Act and all these other laws/organizations designed to constrain the rights of its citizens. Were it not for the PRC's protectionist policies, many (most?) of the Chinese "success stories" would not have happened. Those policies work. It sounds like the US should put them into place since they work.

ajays 16y ago
The US has 308 million people. A society this big will have outliers; Gitmo being one of them. And last I checked, Assange was _not_ in the US. And the ones who are 'actively trying to prosecute Assange' are the _Swedes_ and the Brits; not the US. The protectionist policies absolutely don't work beyond a small point. If they worked, then Baidu would be the number 1 search engine in Japan, Korea, Russia, etc. Is it? A (protectionist) wall may keep the outsiders out; but it also keeps the insiders in....
- chc 16y ago
  I don't think anyone really believes the Swedes and the Brits are acting independently of the US on this one. But it all seems beside the point, since none of this has to do with business.
- binaryfinery 16y ago
  "A (protectionist) wall may keep the outsiders out; but it also keeps the insiders in...." As opposed to our policy, which is to give hundreds of billions of dollars to China every year. That's working out so well! Or are you one of these people that doesnt believe that empires fall, or that an empire can fall simply because it runs out of money?

flacon 16y ago

Great points. My comment below was along a similar vein.

binaryfinery 16y ago

Ah yes, the "Rome will stand forever" argument. No, wait, it was the "Mongol Empire shall stand forever". No, thats not it. "The Macedonian Empire shall stand forever". Hmm. Or was it "The Holy Roman Empire shall stand forever". No wait, it was the "British Empire shall rule the waves forever". No, I got it, its "The USA shall rule forever!"

igravious 16y ago

Hi there, Some things to think about: The European Union is wealthier[1] than the US; Europe as a whole is far wealthier. You are assuming that a free and open society is a necessary condition for entrepreneurship, innovation, and thus wealth creation. This may not be the case, certainly it has never been proven. Furthermore, you speak about free and open in absolute terms though of course these concepts are relative concepts and cut across many categories. Slavoj Zizek (a European philosopher) has questioned[2] this unspoken connection - as have many others. The idea now is that capitalism with Asian features (by which is meant a capitalist system that does not go hand in hand with multi-party democracy) might actually be more efficient and more voracious than Western style capitalism. Given the laws passed by congress in the last 10 years you would have to be deaf and blind not to have noticed the increasing hostility[3] towards liberty and openness in the US. In no particular order you have: pervasive wiretapping, the USA PATRIOT act, humiliation at the border, the executive assassination program (of US citizens!), largest prison population in the world in percentage and absolute terms, to name but a few off the top of my head. I think the US needs to do a little bit more than just rearranging deck-chairs on what ostensibly looks like a ship in danger of sinking. [1] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html?countryName=European%20Union&countryCode=ee&regionCode=eu&rank=1#ee https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... [2] http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/living-end-times-slavoj-zizek/ http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/living-end-times-slavoj-zizek... [3] http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=civilliberties&ordering=beginDate+descending&timeperiod= http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=civillib...