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The sooner Cook is out, the better. There have been no current offerings in Apple's lineup I would purchase since 2012-2015, and I know I am not alone in this s

The sooner Cook is out, the better. There have been no current offerings in Apple's lineup I would purchase since 2012-2015, and I know I am not alone in this sentiment. The RAM and SSD being soldered to the logic board is beyond inexcusable. I count on upgrading my laptops over time, and have, for every Mac I've ever owned, to get a few extra good years out of them. Even the environmental impact is nonsense.

scarface74 7y ago
Jobs loved unupgradable hardware. What you are seeing now all started under Jobs when he came back. Do you think Jobs would have moved the iPhone/iPad to be more like the Mac if he were still alive or vice versa?
- lostgame 7y ago
  >> Jobs loved unupgradable hardware. First off, I don't think any of Apple's computers from 2012-2015 had much to do with Jobs, nor did I mention him by name. Second off, if Jobs loved unupgradable hardware so much, then why have I upgraded every single Mac I've owned since my first original 2005 Mac Mini? Why am I now paying more for something that will be derped in three years because I can't upgrade the RAM and can't justify the extra cost at the moment? If Apple even offered a service to do such a thing, but no. I've upgraded every computer I've ever had - I would never purchase a brand new computer that I could not extend the life of later on - nor have I, from Apple. (I'm talking desktop computers, the iPad is most certainly not a computer - until I can develop on it, and have full access to the filesystem, I'm not calling it a computer). This pattern has only emerged in the past few years, and I will absolutely refuse to buy another MacBook until I can upgrade it myself. If that means I go back to hackintoshing a ThinkPad (I use Logic and Final Cut professionally, and occasionally do iOS work with Xcode) - I'll be more than happy to give Lenovo my money - and hey, I'll actually have some usable ports while I'm at it.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    First off, I don't think any of Apple's computers from 2012-2015 had much to do with Jobs, nor did I mention him by name. Well, since the entire premise of the article and even the title is that the next person in line is more like Tim Cook than Steve Jobs and you said that you would be glad when Tim Cook left, it’s a reasonable assumption that you were implying you wish Apple had someone more like Jobs. Second off, if Jobs loved unupgradable hardware so much, then why have I upgraded every single Mac I've owned since my first original 2005 Mac Mini? Seeing that it’s kinda hard to solder a spinning hard drive to the motherboard, Apple really didn’t have a choice back then.... Why am I now paying more for something that will be derped in three years because I can't upgrade the RAM and can't justify the extra cost at the moment? Is there such a thing as a price sensitive Apple customer? If you’re looking for the most affordable, best bang for your buck piece of electronics, you shouldn’t be going anywhere near apple.com. I'm talking desktop computers, the iPad is most certainly not a computer - until I can develop on it, and have full access to the filesystem, I'm not calling it a computer). So now the definition of a computer is “something you can develop on”? What’s the advantage of having “full access to the file system” over “having a common repository on the device where you can share files across applications”? But really, most of the laptops are only upgradeable to 16GB ($200 extra) or at the most 32GB ($400 extra from the base 16GB). Why wouldn’t you just max them out from day one? All of the current desktop Macs (except maybe the low end iMacs?) have user upgradeable RAM. The motherboard of the laptops don’t support more than 16/32GB of RAM so you would never be able to upgrade pass that anyway.
wvenable 7y ago
Jobs himself wanted Apple 8-bit computers to have sealed cases. If anything, the latest moves by Apple (the new Mac Pro) shows a trend towards what you want not the other way around. But I think expecting Apple to become a radically different product company than it's been for the last few decades is asking a lot.
- lostgame 7y ago
  The new Mac Pro is a terrible example of one move in an upgradable direction, which has moved to a ludicrous price point that received many laughs while we watched the keynote in one of the senior dev rooms at a top 5 Canadian bank that I work for. What about Apple removing the non-touchbar model of the MacBook Pro - is that a direction anyone asked for? The words 'touch bar' are the equivalent of 'Voldemort' in the IT world, with 'butterfly keyboard' maybe second. Or, let's take the Mac Mini - which, when I was 15 years old, was inexpensive enough that I was able to save up myself and purchase it, new, from an Apple Store - which has now jumped up several hundred dollars in it's basic configuration. That 15-year-old kid, who justified saving up $500 over a whole summer just to get an Apple computer, couldn't have even afforded it now. What I'm seeing is hardware I don't want - that none of my friends in either the creative professional media industry (audio / film) want - and all of the devs I've seen complain avidly about the first chance they get. The new Mac Pro only shows me a trend towards more impractically expensive, locked-down hardware, designed basically to increase Apple's year-over-year instead of provide year-over-year excellence in their products. I used to love Apple, for years and years. I'm forced to use a 2017 15" MBP at the office and I can't stand it. It's disappointing. I still keep an iMac G4 from all those years back in use almost every day as I've filled it with every season of the Simpsons, Futurama, Seinfeld, etc, and I just love the design...it's a sad reminder of how the mighty fall.
  - cpuguy83 7y ago
    I don't think it's fair to call the Mac Pro price ludicrous (ok the stand is a bit much). The components literally cost that much and it is geared towards a particular audience (e.g. Pixar).
  - 7y ago
rasz 7y ago
>I count on upgrading my laptops over time, and have, for every Mac I've ever owned, to get a few extra good years out of them. You are not Apples current target demographic. You want to upgrade? go ahead and order new device, sell your old one if you must feel like you got "most out of them".
MDWolinski 7y ago
Where Apple is now is directly a result of Steve Jobs view of computing, which Tim Cook is continuing for at least the current term, but that does not mean that Tim Cook is bad for the company. It can easily be argued that what you dislike about today's Apple is really a result of Steve Jobs/Jony Ives era of Apple. The original Macintosh was a sealed box, with custom screws that was designed to prevent people from getting into it and upgrading it (I know, I have one in my attic). This decision, after Jobs left, was changed by John Sculley and into a new generation of upgradable Mac systems. Tim Cook has shown an independence from Jobs thinking on how things should be and is willing to make pivots in how the company operates. We may see more of these changes towards the upgrade functionality that the new Mac Pro brings to filter down to the portable lines in future iterations. There's been whispers that the next generation of MacBook Pros are influenced in this way. Change doesn't come quick or easy and if the new Apple Design Team starts thinking about upgradability again, then I have no doubt that Tim Cook will support that. Also, there are potential laws being proposed that may change the idea of fixability that may help move this along as well. Cook has opened up the company to listening to what Apple commentators and users are saying and making those adjustments, the outreach during WWDC is markedly more open than previous years where access to executives was highly limited and controlled.

scarface74 7y ago

Jobs loved unupgradable hardware. What you are seeing now all started under Jobs when he came back. Do you think Jobs would have moved the iPhone/iPad to be more like the Mac if he were still alive or vice versa?

lostgame 7y ago
>> Jobs loved unupgradable hardware. First off, I don't think any of Apple's computers from 2012-2015 had much to do with Jobs, nor did I mention him by name. Second off, if Jobs loved unupgradable hardware so much, then why have I upgraded every single Mac I've owned since my first original 2005 Mac Mini? Why am I now paying more for something that will be derped in three years because I can't upgrade the RAM and can't justify the extra cost at the moment? If Apple even offered a service to do such a thing, but no. I've upgraded every computer I've ever had - I would never purchase a brand new computer that I could not extend the life of later on - nor have I, from Apple. (I'm talking desktop computers, the iPad is most certainly not a computer - until I can develop on it, and have full access to the filesystem, I'm not calling it a computer). This pattern has only emerged in the past few years, and I will absolutely refuse to buy another MacBook until I can upgrade it myself. If that means I go back to hackintoshing a ThinkPad (I use Logic and Final Cut professionally, and occasionally do iOS work with Xcode) - I'll be more than happy to give Lenovo my money - and hey, I'll actually have some usable ports while I'm at it.
- scarface74 7y ago
  First off, I don't think any of Apple's computers from 2012-2015 had much to do with Jobs, nor did I mention him by name. Well, since the entire premise of the article and even the title is that the next person in line is more like Tim Cook than Steve Jobs and you said that you would be glad when Tim Cook left, it’s a reasonable assumption that you were implying you wish Apple had someone more like Jobs. Second off, if Jobs loved unupgradable hardware so much, then why have I upgraded every single Mac I've owned since my first original 2005 Mac Mini? Seeing that it’s kinda hard to solder a spinning hard drive to the motherboard, Apple really didn’t have a choice back then.... Why am I now paying more for something that will be derped in three years because I can't upgrade the RAM and can't justify the extra cost at the moment? Is there such a thing as a price sensitive Apple customer? If you’re looking for the most affordable, best bang for your buck piece of electronics, you shouldn’t be going anywhere near apple.com. I'm talking desktop computers, the iPad is most certainly not a computer - until I can develop on it, and have full access to the filesystem, I'm not calling it a computer). So now the definition of a computer is “something you can develop on”? What’s the advantage of having “full access to the file system” over “having a common repository on the device where you can share files across applications”? But really, most of the laptops are only upgradeable to 16GB ($200 extra) or at the most 32GB ($400 extra from the base 16GB). Why wouldn’t you just max them out from day one? All of the current desktop Macs (except maybe the low end iMacs?) have user upgradeable RAM. The motherboard of the laptops don’t support more than 16/32GB of RAM so you would never be able to upgrade pass that anyway.

wvenable 7y ago

Jobs himself wanted Apple 8-bit computers to have sealed cases. If anything, the latest moves by Apple (the new Mac Pro) shows a trend towards what you want not the other way around. But I think expecting Apple to become a radically different product company than it's been for the last few decades is asking a lot.

lostgame 7y ago
The new Mac Pro is a terrible example of one move in an upgradable direction, which has moved to a ludicrous price point that received many laughs while we watched the keynote in one of the senior dev rooms at a top 5 Canadian bank that I work for. What about Apple removing the non-touchbar model of the MacBook Pro - is that a direction anyone asked for? The words 'touch bar' are the equivalent of 'Voldemort' in the IT world, with 'butterfly keyboard' maybe second. Or, let's take the Mac Mini - which, when I was 15 years old, was inexpensive enough that I was able to save up myself and purchase it, new, from an Apple Store - which has now jumped up several hundred dollars in it's basic configuration. That 15-year-old kid, who justified saving up $500 over a whole summer just to get an Apple computer, couldn't have even afforded it now. What I'm seeing is hardware I don't want - that none of my friends in either the creative professional media industry (audio / film) want - and all of the devs I've seen complain avidly about the first chance they get. The new Mac Pro only shows me a trend towards more impractically expensive, locked-down hardware, designed basically to increase Apple's year-over-year instead of provide year-over-year excellence in their products. I used to love Apple, for years and years. I'm forced to use a 2017 15" MBP at the office and I can't stand it. It's disappointing. I still keep an iMac G4 from all those years back in use almost every day as I've filled it with every season of the Simpsons, Futurama, Seinfeld, etc, and I just love the design...it's a sad reminder of how the mighty fall.
- cpuguy83 7y ago
  I don't think it's fair to call the Mac Pro price ludicrous (ok the stand is a bit much). The components literally cost that much and it is geared towards a particular audience (e.g. Pixar).
- 7y ago

rasz 7y ago

>I count on upgrading my laptops over time, and have, for every Mac I've ever owned, to get a few extra good years out of them. You are not Apples current target demographic. You want to upgrade? go ahead and order new device, sell your old one if you must feel like you got "most out of them".

MDWolinski 7y ago

Where Apple is now is directly a result of Steve Jobs view of computing, which Tim Cook is continuing for at least the current term, but that does not mean that Tim Cook is bad for the company. It can easily be argued that what you dislike about today's Apple is really a result of Steve Jobs/Jony Ives era of Apple. The original Macintosh was a sealed box, with custom screws that was designed to prevent people from getting into it and upgrading it (I know, I have one in my attic). This decision, after Jobs left, was changed by John Sculley and into a new generation of upgradable Mac systems. Tim Cook has shown an independence from Jobs thinking on how things should be and is willing to make pivots in how the company operates. We may see more of these changes towards the upgrade functionality that the new Mac Pro brings to filter down to the portable lines in future iterations. There's been whispers that the next generation of MacBook Pros are influenced in this way. Change doesn't come quick or easy and if the new Apple Design Team starts thinking about upgradability again, then I have no doubt that Tim Cook will support that. Also, there are potential laws being proposed that may change the idea of fixability that may help move this along as well. Cook has opened up the company to listening to what Apple commentators and users are saying and making those adjustments, the outreach during WWDC is markedly more open than previous years where access to executives was highly limited and controlled.