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>I strongly believe in freedom of movement so any legal or extra-legal means to do so are all right in my book. >Laws are meant to be broken. Those two statem

>I strongly believe in freedom of movement so any legal or extra-legal means to do so are all right in my book. >Laws are meant to be broken. Those two statements sound a bit conflicting to me. Also, I don’t know how one can call green card marriage fraud “bending the rules” or a “workaround”. It is literally lying to USCIS in order to obtain a green card under false pretenses.

damnyou 7y ago
If they are legally married then how is it fraud? The entire idea of marriage fraud is bogus — it's just another invention used to justify state violence against a disfavored group. Marriages exist in all shapes and forms, many more than the state can think of. For example USCIS apparently puts some people through interviews where they ask for intimate personal details of the spouse, like what side of the bed they sleep on or the color of the toothbrush they use. This implies a particular definition of marriage — one where you sleep on the same bed and use the same bathroom. Yet I know plenty of happily married folks who have generally separate lives, including having separate intimate relationships. That doesn't make their marriages any less valid!
- filoleg 7y ago
  >For example USCIS apparently puts some people through interviews where they ask for intimate personal details of the spouse, like what side of the bed they sleep on or the color of the toothbrush they use. This implies a particular definition of marriage — one where you sleep on the same bed and use the same bathroom. They aren’t looking for a “particular definition of marriage.” They are looking for inconsistencies and divergences between what each partner says, thus trying to catch them lying. I heavily doubt they will call your marriage fraudulent just because you and your partner don’t share the same bed.
  - damnyou 7y ago
    I've heard very different things, sorry. Folks getting harassed and their marriages questioned for not fitting into white, monogamous, cisheteronormative definitions.
justaguyhere 7y ago
It is fraud but more importantly, it only takes a few cases like this for USCIS to make the rules even more tight than they already are. A few bad apples make the system incredibly difficult for the majority. Then slowly more people start breaking the rules (after all, life is short, noone wants to wait decades), then the system becomes even more difficult and the cycle continues. I guess every system begins with good intentions and finally ends up getting unfriendly as people abuse it. One can argue that it is the system creators' job to make the system fair and difficult to game, but that is a topic for another time... end rant :(

damnyou 7y ago

If they are legally married then how is it fraud? The entire idea of marriage fraud is bogus — it's just another invention used to justify state violence against a disfavored group. Marriages exist in all shapes and forms, many more than the state can think of. For example USCIS apparently puts some people through interviews where they ask for intimate personal details of the spouse, like what side of the bed they sleep on or the color of the toothbrush they use. This implies a particular definition of marriage — one where you sleep on the same bed and use the same bathroom. Yet I know plenty of happily married folks who have generally separate lives, including having separate intimate relationships. That doesn't make their marriages any less valid!

filoleg 7y ago
>For example USCIS apparently puts some people through interviews where they ask for intimate personal details of the spouse, like what side of the bed they sleep on or the color of the toothbrush they use. This implies a particular definition of marriage — one where you sleep on the same bed and use the same bathroom. They aren’t looking for a “particular definition of marriage.” They are looking for inconsistencies and divergences between what each partner says, thus trying to catch them lying. I heavily doubt they will call your marriage fraudulent just because you and your partner don’t share the same bed.
- damnyou 7y ago
  I've heard very different things, sorry. Folks getting harassed and their marriages questioned for not fitting into white, monogamous, cisheteronormative definitions.

justaguyhere 7y ago

It is fraud but more importantly, it only takes a few cases like this for USCIS to make the rules even more tight than they already are. A few bad apples make the system incredibly difficult for the majority. Then slowly more people start breaking the rules (after all, life is short, noone wants to wait decades), then the system becomes even more difficult and the cycle continues. I guess every system begins with good intentions and finally ends up getting unfriendly as people abuse it. One can argue that it is the system creators' job to make the system fair and difficult to game, but that is a topic for another time... end rant :(