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Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of the government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the cause. China

Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of the government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the cause. China was attacked, invaded, humiliated from the end of the 18th century until 1945. This is what created a reaction that led to the collapse of imperial rule and to the rise of the modern parties (Nationalists and Communists). The communist government did manage to rid the country of foreign occupation and to recover some breakaway provinces. Hong Kong, lost to the British in the Opium Wars, was a very bitter symbol and a source of humiliation and most Chinese do credit the current government with getting it back at last. This is a real source of legitimacy. This is why showing the protests may be so potent on Chinese public opinion. Protesters should be worried because if the Chinese government changes policy and starts showing these images this can only mean that they plan a more serious crackdown. Public opinion will demand it.

lostlogin 7y ago
> Public opinion will demand it. In this scenario, is there public opinion that isn’t faked?
- underthebus 7y ago
  That's not knowing China. There is a public opinion and a strong one on these issues. It's not faked. As mentioned Chinese nationalism is what created today's China, not the other way round. The very existence of Hong Kong as a British colony is partly responsible for today's China.
  - reeves23423 7y ago
    When the govt punishes people if they speak against it how do you know what the realpublic opinion is ?
loyukfai 7y ago
It's a two-way street. People feel humiliated, and CCP utilises this feeling to build up an xenophobic atmosphere which feeds back into the loop. The funny and sad thing is that, one could say it's the CCP themselves who killed the most Chinese in the last century, speaking figuratively. There are many things I don't agree with or quite understand about the front line protesters, but one thing I'm pretty sure is that they don't give a shit about the CCP image being tarnished. They were shouting for revolutions in the streets already (whether it's a good or workable idea is up for debate), Xi's feeling is not their concern now.
hker 7y ago
> Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of the government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the cause. > China was attacked, invaded, humiliated from the end of the 18th century until 1945. This is what created a reaction that led to the collapse of imperial rule and to the rise of the modern parties (Nationalists and Communists). For a discussion of the birth of nationalism and patriotism in China, see this Chinese article [1] by Wai Kin Chung 鍾偉健. Like anything in social science, nationalism–including the Chinese one–is a social construct. The nationalism of China, in particular the term 中華民族 Zhonghua minzu, was first coined towards the end of the 19th century [1], and before that China was much more receptive of people of different ethnicity: in the past dynasties many famous poets and generals were of a different race. More precisely, Chinese back then didn‘t care much about differing ethnicities, but they care about differing cultures. The Chinese nationalism (esp. stressing the humiliation by foreigners) was socially constructed near the end of the last dynasty (Qing) in China, and clearly played an important role to its demise, in the way you pointed out. For comparison, Japan or Germany do not stress their defeat and humiliation by the Allied power for their nationalism, because their source of legitimacy is democracy. [1]: https://gushi.tw/you-are-also-chinese/ https://gushi.tw/you-are-also-chinese/ > (Nationalism) This is a real source of legitimacy. Exactly, completely agree. Xi, like his predecessors, is trying to equate the party with the nation (mostly the Han race) to fuel this modern Chinese nationalism for legitimacy, and the latest attempt is a revival nationalism called Chinese dream [2]. In the last decade, a main source of legitimacy for CCP was fast GDP growth, but this source is drying up quickly due to excess production, unsustainable credit expansion, and aging population. So Xi is trying to promote another source of legitimacy for CCP in case the economy is not performing well, again stressing 中華民族 Zhonghua minzu or effectively the Han race and their humiliation by foreigners, as you elaborated. [2]: https://www.eurasiareview.com/08122018-the-contours-of-xis-chinese-nationalism-analysis/ https://www.eurasiareview.com/08122018-the-contours-of-xis-c...
- 444e 7y ago
  after 1976, china lost its legitimacy and began to rely on nationalism to get support
- mnm1 7y ago
blaser-waffle 7y ago
"All Nationalism is 'wounded', by definition" -- there is always some old grudge or memory of glory to fuel revanchist ferver. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheWarNerd/comments/85ewei/all_nationalism_is_wounded_by_definition_war_nerd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheWarNerd/comments/85ewei/all_nati...

lostlogin 7y ago

> Public opinion will demand it. In this scenario, is there public opinion that isn’t faked?

underthebus 7y ago
That's not knowing China. There is a public opinion and a strong one on these issues. It's not faked. As mentioned Chinese nationalism is what created today's China, not the other way round. The very existence of Hong Kong as a British colony is partly responsible for today's China.
- reeves23423 7y ago
  When the govt punishes people if they speak against it how do you know what the realpublic opinion is ?

loyukfai 7y ago

It's a two-way street. People feel humiliated, and CCP utilises this feeling to build up an xenophobic atmosphere which feeds back into the loop. The funny and sad thing is that, one could say it's the CCP themselves who killed the most Chinese in the last century, speaking figuratively. There are many things I don't agree with or quite understand about the front line protesters, but one thing I'm pretty sure is that they don't give a shit about the CCP image being tarnished. They were shouting for revolutions in the streets already (whether it's a good or workable idea is up for debate), Xi's feeling is not their concern now.

hker 7y ago

> Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of the government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the cause. > China was attacked, invaded, humiliated from the end of the 18th century until 1945. This is what created a reaction that led to the collapse of imperial rule and to the rise of the modern parties (Nationalists and Communists). For a discussion of the birth of nationalism and patriotism in China, see this Chinese article [1] by Wai Kin Chung 鍾偉健. Like anything in social science, nationalism–including the Chinese one–is a social construct. The nationalism of China, in particular the term 中華民族 Zhonghua minzu, was first coined towards the end of the 19th century [1], and before that China was much more receptive of people of different ethnicity: in the past dynasties many famous poets and generals were of a different race. More precisely, Chinese back then didn‘t care much about differing ethnicities, but they care about differing cultures. The Chinese nationalism (esp. stressing the humiliation by foreigners) was socially constructed near the end of the last dynasty (Qing) in China, and clearly played an important role to its demise, in the way you pointed out. For comparison, Japan or Germany do not stress their defeat and humiliation by the Allied power for their nationalism, because their source of legitimacy is democracy. [1]: https://gushi.tw/you-are-also-chinese/ https://gushi.tw/you-are-also-chinese/ > (Nationalism) This is a real source of legitimacy. Exactly, completely agree. Xi, like his predecessors, is trying to equate the party with the nation (mostly the Han race) to fuel this modern Chinese nationalism for legitimacy, and the latest attempt is a revival nationalism called Chinese dream [2]. In the last decade, a main source of legitimacy for CCP was fast GDP growth, but this source is drying up quickly due to excess production, unsustainable credit expansion, and aging population. So Xi is trying to promote another source of legitimacy for CCP in case the economy is not performing well, again stressing 中華民族 Zhonghua minzu or effectively the Han race and their humiliation by foreigners, as you elaborated. [2]: https://www.eurasiareview.com/08122018-the-contours-of-xis-chinese-nationalism-analysis/ https://www.eurasiareview.com/08122018-the-contours-of-xis-c...

444e 7y ago
after 1976, china lost its legitimacy and began to rely on nationalism to get support
mnm1 7y ago

blaser-waffle 7y ago

"All Nationalism is 'wounded', by definition" -- there is always some old grudge or memory of glory to fuel revanchist ferver. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheWarNerd/comments/85ewei/all_nationalism_is_wounded_by_definition_war_nerd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheWarNerd/comments/85ewei/all_nati...