4 ms·

> are some trans skeptics not transphobic: unequivocally yes How?

cat199 7y ago
by disagreeing with the philosophial argument that gender is different from bilological sex without actually being afraid (phobia) of being wrong, nor being 'hateful' to those who claim it (e.g. treat them like people)
drak0n1c 7y ago
Phobia is a strong label meaning irrational fear or hatred. Skepticism of mainstream assumptions does not always involve irrational fear or hatred.
- david38 7y ago
  This. The left loves to redefine words like phobias to weaponize them. They then say anyone who is not welcoming with open arms is x-phobic and lives in fear and hatred of said group and by extension wishes to attack them. It is very possible to disagree with something like homosexuality and simply go about your life. It doesn’t mean you throw stones or spit at them, you just disagree with them. Trans is a little different because the desired outcome is you change your behavior NOT to treat them like everyone else but to treat them according to target identity. So if you choose not to go out of your way to treat them differently, you are phobic. In the past, this wasn’t an issue. You could not believe in mixing races and that simply meant you didn’t date outside your race. You still addressed a black/Hispanic/etc man as sir, woman as m’am, etc. a flat out racist would call the men “boy”, refuse to serve them, whatever. Of course there are people today who will call you a racist for not sleeping with someone outside your race. They redefine racist as any change in behavior based on race instead of the intended idea where your actions deny the person those things they would otherwise have a right to.
pmarreck 7y ago
You could make the rational (but... somewhat outrage-triggering) argument that it's cognitively-dissonant to both believe that teens cannot consent to sex with an adult but they CAN consent to a far more permanent and invasive gender change performed by adults (I just googled; hormone-blocking treatment usually begins at puberty onset) And you could (probably) rationally argue against that argument Or you could just deplatform anyone making the original argument against it and accomplish nothing
- DanBC 7y ago
  You didn't google hard enough: treatment at puberty would be hormone blockers, which are reversible.
  - drak0n1c 7y ago
    Not quite. There's recent studies on both genders finding lasting effects of pre-pubescent hormone blockers on brain development, memory, and IQ. Brain plasticity drops significantly with age, so any recovery in that department if and when a decision to reverse is made is diminished. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5694455/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5694455/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=11683207 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetail... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.00044/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.0004...
    - pmarreck 7y ago
      And this is how one rationally debates a potentially inflammatory topic without deplatforming anyone. By sticking close to the available evidence and using careful reasoning.
    - DanBC 7y ago
      you've failed to address "reverisble", because none of your links look at that.
  - pmarreck 7y ago
    I had a comment here but the other response covered it better... basically, the reversibility of hormone-blocking on a rapidly-changing, rapidly-growing brain and body responding to said hormones are not nearly as possible as you think. I'm not saying it might not result in some interesting people that might have interesting perspectives on things that might contribute to society positively; just saying that a "complete undo" is strictly incorrect
    - 7y ago

by disagreeing with the philosophial argument that gender is different from bilological sex without actually being afraid (phobia) of being wrong, nor being 'hateful' to those who claim it (e.g. treat them like people)

drak0n1c 7y ago

Phobia is a strong label meaning irrational fear or hatred. Skepticism of mainstream assumptions does not always involve irrational fear or hatred.

david38 7y ago
This. The left loves to redefine words like phobias to weaponize them. They then say anyone who is not welcoming with open arms is x-phobic and lives in fear and hatred of said group and by extension wishes to attack them. It is very possible to disagree with something like homosexuality and simply go about your life. It doesn’t mean you throw stones or spit at them, you just disagree with them. Trans is a little different because the desired outcome is you change your behavior NOT to treat them like everyone else but to treat them according to target identity. So if you choose not to go out of your way to treat them differently, you are phobic. In the past, this wasn’t an issue. You could not believe in mixing races and that simply meant you didn’t date outside your race. You still addressed a black/Hispanic/etc man as sir, woman as m’am, etc. a flat out racist would call the men “boy”, refuse to serve them, whatever. Of course there are people today who will call you a racist for not sleeping with someone outside your race. They redefine racist as any change in behavior based on race instead of the intended idea where your actions deny the person those things they would otherwise have a right to.

pmarreck 7y ago

You could make the rational (but... somewhat outrage-triggering) argument that it's cognitively-dissonant to both believe that teens cannot consent to sex with an adult but they CAN consent to a far more permanent and invasive gender change performed by adults (I just googled; hormone-blocking treatment usually begins at puberty onset) And you could (probably) rationally argue against that argument Or you could just deplatform anyone making the original argument against it and accomplish nothing

DanBC 7y ago
You didn't google hard enough: treatment at puberty would be hormone blockers, which are reversible.
- drak0n1c 7y ago
  Not quite. There's recent studies on both genders finding lasting effects of pre-pubescent hormone blockers on brain development, memory, and IQ. Brain plasticity drops significantly with age, so any recovery in that department if and when a decision to reverse is made is diminished. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5694455/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5694455/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=11683207 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetail... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.00044/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.0004...
  - pmarreck 7y ago
    And this is how one rationally debates a potentially inflammatory topic without deplatforming anyone. By sticking close to the available evidence and using careful reasoning.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    you've failed to address "reverisble", because none of your links look at that.
- pmarreck 7y ago
  I had a comment here but the other response covered it better... basically, the reversibility of hormone-blocking on a rapidly-changing, rapidly-growing brain and body responding to said hormones are not nearly as possible as you think. I'm not saying it might not result in some interesting people that might have interesting perspectives on things that might contribute to society positively; just saying that a "complete undo" is strictly incorrect
  - 7y ago