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Are you guys planning on ever removing the "location factor" from your compensation calculations? That's the only thing that's preventing me from applying - app

Are you guys planning on ever removing the "location factor" from your compensation calculations? That's the only thing that's preventing me from applying - apparently I'm only worth 0.4x as much as a "SF Benchmark" developer to you guys right now, because I choose to live in a cheaper part of the world.

emilycook 7y ago
The best response to this that I can give is a link to our blog post about this, where we break down why we pay local rates:https://about.gitlab.com/2019/02/28/why-we-pay-local-rates/ https://about.gitlab.com/2019/02/28/why-we-pay-local-rates/ So disclaimer, I work for GitLab. But the draw to working here isn't the possibility of making an SF salary, it's to work remotely for the same salary as working for a local company. I don't really care if I'm making less than a colleague in SF, because the benefit of working remotely while not taking a pay cut is already worth it. It's not for everyone though, so if you don't see working from home as a big enough benefit then that's valid.
- napoleond 7y ago
  Your local adjustments aren't competitive, though. I live in a low cost of living area, but I could easily make at least 50% more than what your salary calculator shows at any of a number of local companies. And, in practice, I work remotely for a Silicon Valley company and make even more than that (while still saving them money relative to SV rates).
  - emilycook 7y ago
    That's fair, I had the same experience coming from a lower COL area, and when I was interviewing I was able to negotiate for a higher salary and they adjusted. If GitLab wants you badly enough then they'll do what every company does and try and make themselves competitive. You just have less leverage to negotiate in general because you're competing with international talent vs local talent.
- jedberg 7y ago
  It doesn't bother you that one of your colleagues in SF doing the exact same work as you gets paid double to also work from home?
  - emilycook 7y ago
    Not really, my motivation to accept a job at GitLab didn't come from how much I could make relative to everyone else in the company, it came from how I could be doing the same work I was doing for a local company but from home. Salaries aren't the only thing that make one company more appealing than another.
    - jedberg 7y ago
      It's not about salary, its about fairness. This is the kind of thinking that leads to the pay gap between genders -- because women are willing to accept less pay for the same work because "it's good enough and I don't want to cause trouble". It might very well be good enough, but it certainly isn't fair. Trouble needs to be caused when unfairness is involved.
      - emilycook 7y ago
        As a woman myself, I don't see this as a slippery-slope argument like you're implying. The gender pay gap is very complicated, and IMO not at all the same as a company saying "we want to offer salaries that compete with your local companies, and then also offer these other benefits like working from home" vs "we want anyone within the company to make the same amount regardless of where they live". The gender pay gap is a whole separate matter that I'd prefer not to get into because, tbh, talking about it in tech-spheres that are still male-dominated is intimidating. I guess all I can say beyond this is that if you're ethically against these practices then I support you voicing that, and while I can offer differing opinions, I still think you're within your right to openly disagree.
- WA 7y ago
  Why not compare with other remote companies, but with local ones? Furthermore, I’d care a lot if I made a lot less than a colleague for the same type of work at the same company. Living in a cheap area comes with drawbacks. It might be a good choice for some, but a necessity for others (maybe they have relatives to take care of). I don’t really see how my choice of location should affect my payment in a remote company at all. But then, maybe a company like Gitlab wouldn’t be the right place for me, because I don’t share their salary philosophy.
  - emilycook 7y ago
    > Why not compare with other remote companies, but with local ones? Because there really aren't that many of them, and even fewer who aren't also using local rates. > Living in a cheap area comes with drawbacks. I agree, I live in a cheaper COL location. But, I was already living here, so I'm not sure how my salary at GitLab affects that. Local companies don't pay you more because of the drawbacks of living in a cheaper location. If I moved to a higher COL location then I would be compensated for that [1]. The mechanics are the same, I just get to do my job from home. > I’d care a lot if I made a lot less than a colleague for the same type of work at the same company This is, I think, the most important factor. I didn't decline my offer at GitLab in favor of staying at my previous company because I knew my salary would be the same as every other employee. I compromised on that front so I could work remotely for a company that I really felt like was a better fit for me. [1] https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-compensation/#relocating https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-c...
  - conductr 7y ago
    Really you’re not right for them because you don’t share their remote philosophy. Their comp structure is designed to filter for employees who value remote over all else. Kind of makes sense for a 100% remote company to do that. People who are wanting SF rates in Thailand aren’t really motivated by remote, it’s a perk, but geo arbitrage is the real motivation.
- peterbell_nyc 7y ago
  That's a great way of hiring people who aren't good enough to get a remote job at SF wages. The problem is that it cuts off the ability to hire the top of the market. I currently live in Boulder, Co, but I never even considered working for a business that wasn't in (and paying like) NY or SF. For top talent you're not competing with the local crappy .NET consulting shop paying $60k a year, you're competing with every SV startup that's open to going remote for the right hires. All that said, lots of reasons other than comp to take a position, and it seems to be working just fine for GitLab!
  - emilycook 7y ago
    > The problem is that it cuts off the ability to hire the top of the market. To be frank, I don't think the gap in skill between the top-top-top tier employees and those who are competitive candidates for non-SF salary remote positions is all that wide, nor do I think it's necessary for a company's success to only hire the absolute pinnacle of talent. We're also not competing in the same consumer market as many SV startups, so if a different remote company has a higher saturation of top-tier developers, I'm not sure why that affects us unless they're a competitor. I do see this point though, and I'm sure Sid does as well, but the level of skill that the people I work with have vs the employees at my previous (local) company is incomparable. Everyone is very good at what they do, and are motivated to continue working here because of all of the other perks of working for a company like GitLab.
malandrew 7y ago
What happens if someone starts working remotely in a high cost of living area and moves? Do you cut their salary when they move or do they get to keep their original salary?
- kathrou 7y ago
  Salary is adjusted: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-compensation/#relocating https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-c...

emilycook 7y ago

The best response to this that I can give is a link to our blog post about this, where we break down why we pay local rates:https://about.gitlab.com/2019/02/28/why-we-pay-local-rates/ https://about.gitlab.com/2019/02/28/why-we-pay-local-rates/ So disclaimer, I work for GitLab. But the draw to working here isn't the possibility of making an SF salary, it's to work remotely for the same salary as working for a local company. I don't really care if I'm making less than a colleague in SF, because the benefit of working remotely while not taking a pay cut is already worth it. It's not for everyone though, so if you don't see working from home as a big enough benefit then that's valid.

napoleond 7y ago
Your local adjustments aren't competitive, though. I live in a low cost of living area, but I could easily make at least 50% more than what your salary calculator shows at any of a number of local companies. And, in practice, I work remotely for a Silicon Valley company and make even more than that (while still saving them money relative to SV rates).
- emilycook 7y ago
  That's fair, I had the same experience coming from a lower COL area, and when I was interviewing I was able to negotiate for a higher salary and they adjusted. If GitLab wants you badly enough then they'll do what every company does and try and make themselves competitive. You just have less leverage to negotiate in general because you're competing with international talent vs local talent.
jedberg 7y ago
It doesn't bother you that one of your colleagues in SF doing the exact same work as you gets paid double to also work from home?
- emilycook 7y ago
  Not really, my motivation to accept a job at GitLab didn't come from how much I could make relative to everyone else in the company, it came from how I could be doing the same work I was doing for a local company but from home. Salaries aren't the only thing that make one company more appealing than another.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    It's not about salary, its about fairness. This is the kind of thinking that leads to the pay gap between genders -- because women are willing to accept less pay for the same work because "it's good enough and I don't want to cause trouble". It might very well be good enough, but it certainly isn't fair. Trouble needs to be caused when unfairness is involved.
    - emilycook 7y ago
      As a woman myself, I don't see this as a slippery-slope argument like you're implying. The gender pay gap is very complicated, and IMO not at all the same as a company saying "we want to offer salaries that compete with your local companies, and then also offer these other benefits like working from home" vs "we want anyone within the company to make the same amount regardless of where they live". The gender pay gap is a whole separate matter that I'd prefer not to get into because, tbh, talking about it in tech-spheres that are still male-dominated is intimidating. I guess all I can say beyond this is that if you're ethically against these practices then I support you voicing that, and while I can offer differing opinions, I still think you're within your right to openly disagree.
WA 7y ago
Why not compare with other remote companies, but with local ones? Furthermore, I’d care a lot if I made a lot less than a colleague for the same type of work at the same company. Living in a cheap area comes with drawbacks. It might be a good choice for some, but a necessity for others (maybe they have relatives to take care of). I don’t really see how my choice of location should affect my payment in a remote company at all. But then, maybe a company like Gitlab wouldn’t be the right place for me, because I don’t share their salary philosophy.
- emilycook 7y ago
  > Why not compare with other remote companies, but with local ones? Because there really aren't that many of them, and even fewer who aren't also using local rates. > Living in a cheap area comes with drawbacks. I agree, I live in a cheaper COL location. But, I was already living here, so I'm not sure how my salary at GitLab affects that. Local companies don't pay you more because of the drawbacks of living in a cheaper location. If I moved to a higher COL location then I would be compensated for that [1]. The mechanics are the same, I just get to do my job from home. > I’d care a lot if I made a lot less than a colleague for the same type of work at the same company This is, I think, the most important factor. I didn't decline my offer at GitLab in favor of staying at my previous company because I knew my salary would be the same as every other employee. I compromised on that front so I could work remotely for a company that I really felt like was a better fit for me. [1] https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-compensation/#relocating https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-c...
- conductr 7y ago
  Really you’re not right for them because you don’t share their remote philosophy. Their comp structure is designed to filter for employees who value remote over all else. Kind of makes sense for a 100% remote company to do that. People who are wanting SF rates in Thailand aren’t really motivated by remote, it’s a perk, but geo arbitrage is the real motivation.
peterbell_nyc 7y ago
That's a great way of hiring people who aren't good enough to get a remote job at SF wages. The problem is that it cuts off the ability to hire the top of the market. I currently live in Boulder, Co, but I never even considered working for a business that wasn't in (and paying like) NY or SF. For top talent you're not competing with the local crappy .NET consulting shop paying $60k a year, you're competing with every SV startup that's open to going remote for the right hires. All that said, lots of reasons other than comp to take a position, and it seems to be working just fine for GitLab!
- emilycook 7y ago
  > The problem is that it cuts off the ability to hire the top of the market. To be frank, I don't think the gap in skill between the top-top-top tier employees and those who are competitive candidates for non-SF salary remote positions is all that wide, nor do I think it's necessary for a company's success to only hire the absolute pinnacle of talent. We're also not competing in the same consumer market as many SV startups, so if a different remote company has a higher saturation of top-tier developers, I'm not sure why that affects us unless they're a competitor. I do see this point though, and I'm sure Sid does as well, but the level of skill that the people I work with have vs the employees at my previous (local) company is incomparable. Everyone is very good at what they do, and are motivated to continue working here because of all of the other perks of working for a company like GitLab.

malandrew 7y ago

What happens if someone starts working remotely in a high cost of living area and moves? Do you cut their salary when they move or do they get to keep their original salary?

kathrou 7y ago
Salary is adjusted: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-compensation/#relocating https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-c...