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I don't understand what you think other nations are supposed to do? Or what influence they can possibly have? Hong Kong is Chinese territory - really, they can

I don't understand what you think other nations are supposed to do? Or what influence they can possibly have? Hong Kong is Chinese territory - really, they can do whatever they want there. This is the same regime that is holding as many as a million Uyghurs in concentration camps right now. One interesting constraint that Beijing is operating under, though, is Taiwan. The government has argued in favor of reunification for years now, under a similar one-nation-two-systems framework. If they send the tanks and the shock-troops in to Hong Kong, then no one can deny that that's all bullshit.

nostromo 7y ago
China would be risking sanctions. Given that their economy is already slowing (dramatically faster than the official numbers by many reports) and their massive debt loads -- sanctions could pack a real punch.
- loyukfai 7y ago
  Personally I don't think other countries are willing to sanction China just for Hong Kong. But it is a piece on the chessboard, for sure.
CogitoCogito 7y ago
> If they send the tanks and the shock-troops in to Hong Kong, then no one can deny that that's all bullshit. Of course people can still deny it. Tiananmen Square happened after all. The PRC has never governed Taiwan yet essentially no governments call their imperialism what it is and tacitly accept their “unification” language. At the end of the day countries can argue up is down if money is involved.
- underthebus 7y ago
  > The PRC has never governed Taiwan yet essentially no governments call their imperialism what it is and tacitly accept their “unification” language. Taiwan is internationally recognised as being part of China. What happened is that the Chinese government of the time fled there during the civil war. The communists founded the PRC and the ROC government kept control of Taiwan. Since then the question has been who to recognise as legitimate government. And this has changed over time. What you're saying is like saying that South Korea never governed the North (or vice versa) or that East Germany never governed West Germany (or vice versa). While obviously factually true this does not diminish the fact that they are part of Korea or Germany as a whole. 'reunification' is the correct term, it's nothing to do with colonisation (what imperialism relates to).
  - CogitoCogito 7y ago
    Look you’re just repeating the same nonsense they are. I don’t even blame you. You’ve heard it so often so that it must be true. The PRC has never governed Taiwan. The ROC hasn’t governed the mainland for close to 70 years. They have separate militaries, currencies, and separate international relations. Hell they even trade with each other. They are two separate countries regardless of what either sides political claims. Regardless you’re basically proving my point. People can argue anything if they want to. And when money’s involved people will argue whatever you want.
    - underthebus 7y ago
      > Look you’re just repeating the same nonsense they are. I am describing the historical reality. I think the point of HN is to be able to do that without receiving insults in return. > They are two separate countries regardless of what either sides political claims. They are of course are de facto separate states. This does not change a thing to my previous comment. 'China' is made of the mainland and Taiwan, like 'Germany' was made of East and West Germany. Really, the mistake of the PRC is to have prevented the use of the official name of what Taiwan is as a state: The Republic of China. That would have nipped all those "Taiwan v. China" narratives in the bud.
      - CogitoCogito 7y ago
        > I am describing the historical reality. No you’re really not. The PRC and the ROC are two separate countries with (extremely large border disputes). Everything else is just propaganda. There is a landed region vaguely referred to as “China” made up of land that one time or another contained the mainland as well as Taiwan. That region is not a “country” today and is definitely not represented by either the PRC or the ROC regardless of what the acronyms stand for. > I think the point of HN is to be able to do that without receiving insults in return. I didn’t insult you. I called your argument nonsense. I mean that literally and it is true. You are parroting old propaganda that there is “one China” which was first put forward by the ROC when it was a member of the UN and trying to assert its claims to the mainland. That propaganda continued to be used by the PRC attempting to make similar claims. But it can’t hide the fact that they are two countries and that propaganda simply makes no sense. Hence the “nonsense” of your argument. > Really, the mistake of the PRC is to have prevented the use of the official name of what Taiwan is as a state: The Republic of China. That would have nipped all those "Taiwan v. China" narratives in the bud. I have no idea what this refers to. The ROC refers to itself the “Republic of China”. It considers itself a state. The real mistake of the PRC is the one it continues to make: not accepting reality and stopping it’s interference in the ROC’s international relations (including its blocking of admittance is the ROC to the UN). It was a farce when the ROC kept the PRC out of the UN and it’s a farce now.

nostromo 7y ago

China would be risking sanctions. Given that their economy is already slowing (dramatically faster than the official numbers by many reports) and their massive debt loads -- sanctions could pack a real punch.

loyukfai 7y ago
Personally I don't think other countries are willing to sanction China just for Hong Kong. But it is a piece on the chessboard, for sure.

CogitoCogito 7y ago

> If they send the tanks and the shock-troops in to Hong Kong, then no one can deny that that's all bullshit. Of course people can still deny it. Tiananmen Square happened after all. The PRC has never governed Taiwan yet essentially no governments call their imperialism what it is and tacitly accept their “unification” language. At the end of the day countries can argue up is down if money is involved.

underthebus 7y ago
> The PRC has never governed Taiwan yet essentially no governments call their imperialism what it is and tacitly accept their “unification” language. Taiwan is internationally recognised as being part of China. What happened is that the Chinese government of the time fled there during the civil war. The communists founded the PRC and the ROC government kept control of Taiwan. Since then the question has been who to recognise as legitimate government. And this has changed over time. What you're saying is like saying that South Korea never governed the North (or vice versa) or that East Germany never governed West Germany (or vice versa). While obviously factually true this does not diminish the fact that they are part of Korea or Germany as a whole. 'reunification' is the correct term, it's nothing to do with colonisation (what imperialism relates to).
- CogitoCogito 7y ago
  Look you’re just repeating the same nonsense they are. I don’t even blame you. You’ve heard it so often so that it must be true. The PRC has never governed Taiwan. The ROC hasn’t governed the mainland for close to 70 years. They have separate militaries, currencies, and separate international relations. Hell they even trade with each other. They are two separate countries regardless of what either sides political claims. Regardless you’re basically proving my point. People can argue anything if they want to. And when money’s involved people will argue whatever you want.
  - underthebus 7y ago
    > Look you’re just repeating the same nonsense they are. I am describing the historical reality. I think the point of HN is to be able to do that without receiving insults in return. > They are two separate countries regardless of what either sides political claims. They are of course are de facto separate states. This does not change a thing to my previous comment. 'China' is made of the mainland and Taiwan, like 'Germany' was made of East and West Germany. Really, the mistake of the PRC is to have prevented the use of the official name of what Taiwan is as a state: The Republic of China. That would have nipped all those "Taiwan v. China" narratives in the bud.
    - CogitoCogito 7y ago
      > I am describing the historical reality. No you’re really not. The PRC and the ROC are two separate countries with (extremely large border disputes). Everything else is just propaganda. There is a landed region vaguely referred to as “China” made up of land that one time or another contained the mainland as well as Taiwan. That region is not a “country” today and is definitely not represented by either the PRC or the ROC regardless of what the acronyms stand for. > I think the point of HN is to be able to do that without receiving insults in return. I didn’t insult you. I called your argument nonsense. I mean that literally and it is true. You are parroting old propaganda that there is “one China” which was first put forward by the ROC when it was a member of the UN and trying to assert its claims to the mainland. That propaganda continued to be used by the PRC attempting to make similar claims. But it can’t hide the fact that they are two countries and that propaganda simply makes no sense. Hence the “nonsense” of your argument. > Really, the mistake of the PRC is to have prevented the use of the official name of what Taiwan is as a state: The Republic of China. That would have nipped all those "Taiwan v. China" narratives in the bud. I have no idea what this refers to. The ROC refers to itself the “Republic of China”. It considers itself a state. The real mistake of the PRC is the one it continues to make: not accepting reality and stopping it’s interference in the ROC’s international relations (including its blocking of admittance is the ROC to the UN). It was a farce when the ROC kept the PRC out of the UN and it’s a farce now.