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I think Apollo was lucky that Johnson came in after Kennedy. I think if a republican had won in 1964 probably there wouldn’t have been a moon landing. By the ti

I think Apollo was lucky that Johnson came in after Kennedy. I think if a republican had won in 1964 probably there wouldn’t have been a moon landing. By the time Nixon came in there was already too much momentum to cancel it.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
The country, the Democratic party and Kennedy for that matter were lucky Johnson wound up in the oval office. Johnson was very good at actually making deals and getting stuff done (e.g. ensuring the budget that gets to his desk includes NASA). If it weren't for Johnson Kennedy would only be remembered for getting us into Vietnam then getting shot.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  I guess Johnson then took the honor of being blamed for getting the country into Vietnam:). And it broke him.
  - ticmasta 7y ago
    Johnson accomplished a lot and, more importantly, in the correct order to make sure things got done. I think you're right though (and that he probably felt the same way) that he'll always be the Vietnam president. That may be a little unfair but it happened on his watch so that's what history will rightfully focus on.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > If it weren't for Johnson Kennedy would only be remembered for getting us into Vietnam then getting shot. Well, getting shot. Kennedy wasn't all that important in getting is into Vietnam, that was mostly before and after Kennedy.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    And Cuba. Both Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  Getting us through the Cuban Missile Crisis without a nuclear exchange makes Kennedy a great president, nothing else really mattered.
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    Then again, there's that whole botched Bay of Pigs invasion that led to the capture of thousands of free Cubans and hundreds of deaths ... https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/the-bay-of-pigs https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/th...
toss1 7y ago
Except that he did cancel it and effectively disbanded what was at the time arguably the greatest engineering team ever assembled. Apollo 18, 19 20, never launched due to Nixon.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  Correct. If he had been voted in four years earlier I bet there wouldn’t have been Apollo 11 either.
  - philwelch 7y ago
    Nixon didn't run in 1964; Goldwater did.
    - toss1 7y ago
      Oddly enough, Nixon ran and lost against Kennedy in 1960. So for sure if Nixon had won in '60, there would have been no space program
      - mulmen 7y ago
        Moon program maybe but the space program was already in full swing by 1960. Space was immensely important to Eisenhower for national defense purposes and Nixon was his VP.
        toss1 7y ago
        Yes, of course, but your comment is quite off-topic. We were talking specifically about the moon program. Obviously, launch & orbital vehicles are critical dual-use civilian/military technologies (space exploration & delivering ICBMs). In contrast, visits to the moon are not (at least for the near & intermediate future) dual-use civ/mil technologies. Nixon killed the moon program when he got into office, and it is very unlikely he would have started one had he won in 1960.
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jdsully 7y ago
Everything I’ve learned about Nixon tells me he would have kept it to avoid losing to the USSR. This is exactly why he escalated Vietnam despite campaigning on withdrawal - they weren’t going to lose on his watch.
- sprafa 7y ago
  He loathed Kennedy tho. He might have cancelled it, or changed it. Who knows really.
  - jdsully 7y ago
    The Russians were working on the same problem and were so confident they refused Kennedy’s suggestion they do a joint effort. You can’t blame them either - they beat the US on every milestone except a manned moon landing. Any attempts to change the game would have been seen for exactly what it was: weakness. He may have hated Kennedy but he loved the US more.
    - sprafa 7y ago
      True. I didn’t realize the Soviets thought they could do it? My impression was their whole lunar program was a clusterfuck

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

The country, the Democratic party and Kennedy for that matter were lucky Johnson wound up in the oval office. Johnson was very good at actually making deals and getting stuff done (e.g. ensuring the budget that gets to his desk includes NASA). If it weren't for Johnson Kennedy would only be remembered for getting us into Vietnam then getting shot.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
I guess Johnson then took the honor of being blamed for getting the country into Vietnam:). And it broke him.
- ticmasta 7y ago
  Johnson accomplished a lot and, more importantly, in the correct order to make sure things got done. I think you're right though (and that he probably felt the same way) that he'll always be the Vietnam president. That may be a little unfair but it happened on his watch so that's what history will rightfully focus on.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
dragonwriter 7y ago
> If it weren't for Johnson Kennedy would only be remembered for getting us into Vietnam then getting shot. Well, getting shot. Kennedy wasn't all that important in getting is into Vietnam, that was mostly before and after Kennedy.
- ghaff 7y ago
  And Cuba. Both Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis.
WalterBright 7y ago
Getting us through the Cuban Missile Crisis without a nuclear exchange makes Kennedy a great president, nothing else really mattered.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  Then again, there's that whole botched Bay of Pigs invasion that led to the capture of thousands of free Cubans and hundreds of deaths ... https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/the-bay-of-pigs https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/th...

toss1 7y ago

Except that he did cancel it and effectively disbanded what was at the time arguably the greatest engineering team ever assembled. Apollo 18, 19 20, never launched due to Nixon.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
Correct. If he had been voted in four years earlier I bet there wouldn’t have been Apollo 11 either.
- philwelch 7y ago
  Nixon didn't run in 1964; Goldwater did.
  - toss1 7y ago
    Oddly enough, Nixon ran and lost against Kennedy in 1960. So for sure if Nixon had won in '60, there would have been no space program
    - mulmen 7y ago
      Moon program maybe but the space program was already in full swing by 1960. Space was immensely important to Eisenhower for national defense purposes and Nixon was his VP.
      - toss1 7y ago
        Yes, of course, but your comment is quite off-topic. We were talking specifically about the moon program. Obviously, launch & orbital vehicles are critical dual-use civilian/military technologies (space exploration & delivering ICBMs). In contrast, visits to the moon are not (at least for the near & intermediate future) dual-use civ/mil technologies. Nixon killed the moon program when he got into office, and it is very unlikely he would have started one had he won in 1960.

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jdsully 7y ago

Everything I’ve learned about Nixon tells me he would have kept it to avoid losing to the USSR. This is exactly why he escalated Vietnam despite campaigning on withdrawal - they weren’t going to lose on his watch.

sprafa 7y ago
He loathed Kennedy tho. He might have cancelled it, or changed it. Who knows really.
- jdsully 7y ago
  The Russians were working on the same problem and were so confident they refused Kennedy’s suggestion they do a joint effort. You can’t blame them either - they beat the US on every milestone except a manned moon landing. Any attempts to change the game would have been seen for exactly what it was: weakness. He may have hated Kennedy but he loved the US more.
  - sprafa 7y ago
    True. I didn’t realize the Soviets thought they could do it? My impression was their whole lunar program was a clusterfuck