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Sounds like the people you're talking about are jealous, and covering it up with insults. Self-promotion has always been important. The degree of importance de

by gaustin 16y ago

Sounds like the people you're talking about are jealous, and covering it up with insults. Self-promotion has always been important. The degree of importance depends on your goals. If you want fame, you have to self-promote. If you want high rates and the choicest jobs, you have to self-promote. If you want to work on interesting problems and make a living doing it, you have to self-promote. If you just want to hack on stuff that turns you on in your spare time, then self-promotion is optional. But who doesn't like a _little_ recognition? I don't think the open source community would exist without that drive. I think self-promotion should be grounded in merit. I would hope the people I respect that might dismissed as "just really good at self promotion" are actually good at what they do. Sorry for the rambly answer.

Locke1689 16y ago
Even in school self-promotion is important. Developing a good relationship with your professors and letting them know what you're interested can help to foster good relationships. When something comes across their desk that you would be a good fit for, the best thing you can hope for is that you're the first person they think to bring it to.
bphogan 16y ago
I completely agree with this. In fact I'll go another step. I'm willing to bet that the people lobbing the thinly veiled insults do so because that's easier than putting their stuff out there and having it ripped to shreds by other people lobbing thinly veiled (or not so thinly-veiled) insults. I've been to enough conferences and been in enough backchannels to see the kind of people who never get up in front of crowds and share what they know sit there are rip on the experience level or presentation skills of those that are putting themselves out there. My feeling is that if you're not into self-promotion and you don't like the fame then that's very cool of you, but looking down on others for wanting to make a name for themselves is not cool.
TomOfTTB 16y ago
I agree with your sentiment but I'm not sure I agree with your point. The problem with taking the attitude of "its all about recognition" is it ignores the fact that (a) other people are willing to take credit for stuff you do and (b) others might take the stuff you did in a direction you don't like. On the first point it shouldn't be news to anyone that there are people who will take credit for things they didn't do. The way those people succeed is by finding things that were done by people who "just want to hack stuff" and then claiming they did it instead. On my second point people who have a claim to helping with your work can hijack it if you don't take your proper credit. Many problems with RSS came from the fact that Dave Winer claimed ownership of it and took it in a completely different direction from its RDF roots. I don't want to rehash that technical argument but that fact remains most of the people who followed Winer did so because they thought he "invented RSS" (or "was the Father of..."). The reason people thought that is because Ramanathan Guha didn't self promote like Winer did. So there are consequences to self-promotion that extend beyond one's personal recognition. If you don't take the credit and leadership role due to you someone else often times will.
WojciechK 16y ago
Well, this is the ultimate goal: being popular without self-promotion. For most of us it's not realistic, so we're pretending a bit and doing it silently and under cover. For example: mean writing and sharing open-source is a strong form of self-promotion, but not as obvious as writing about oneself (I can write such and such code). Self-promotion is like make-up, best is the one which doesn't stand-out. Writing open source is good example, speaking at a conference (as long as you educate, not speak about yourself) is too. But when you add info about your availability and "contact me" call to action to your Github profile or "I'm doing consulting services at..." as the lasts presentation slide - people suddenly notice the self-promotion.

by gaustin 16y ago

Locke1689 16y ago

Even in school self-promotion is important. Developing a good relationship with your professors and letting them know what you're interested can help to foster good relationships. When something comes across their desk that you would be a good fit for, the best thing you can hope for is that you're the first person they think to bring it to.

bphogan 16y ago

I completely agree with this. In fact I'll go another step. I'm willing to bet that the people lobbing the thinly veiled insults do so because that's easier than putting their stuff out there and having it ripped to shreds by other people lobbing thinly veiled (or not so thinly-veiled) insults. I've been to enough conferences and been in enough backchannels to see the kind of people who never get up in front of crowds and share what they know sit there are rip on the experience level or presentation skills of those that are putting themselves out there. My feeling is that if you're not into self-promotion and you don't like the fame then that's very cool of you, but looking down on others for wanting to make a name for themselves is not cool.

TomOfTTB 16y ago

I agree with your sentiment but I'm not sure I agree with your point. The problem with taking the attitude of "its all about recognition" is it ignores the fact that (a) other people are willing to take credit for stuff you do and (b) others might take the stuff you did in a direction you don't like. On the first point it shouldn't be news to anyone that there are people who will take credit for things they didn't do. The way those people succeed is by finding things that were done by people who "just want to hack stuff" and then claiming they did it instead. On my second point people who have a claim to helping with your work can hijack it if you don't take your proper credit. Many problems with RSS came from the fact that Dave Winer claimed ownership of it and took it in a completely different direction from its RDF roots. I don't want to rehash that technical argument but that fact remains most of the people who followed Winer did so because they thought he "invented RSS" (or "was the Father of..."). The reason people thought that is because Ramanathan Guha didn't self promote like Winer did. So there are consequences to self-promotion that extend beyond one's personal recognition. If you don't take the credit and leadership role due to you someone else often times will.

WojciechK 16y ago

Well, this is the ultimate goal: being popular without self-promotion. For most of us it's not realistic, so we're pretending a bit and doing it silently and under cover. For example: mean writing and sharing open-source is a strong form of self-promotion, but not as obvious as writing about oneself (I can write such and such code). Self-promotion is like make-up, best is the one which doesn't stand-out. Writing open source is good example, speaking at a conference (as long as you educate, not speak about yourself) is too. But when you add info about your availability and "contact me" call to action to your Github profile or "I'm doing consulting services at..." as the lasts presentation slide - people suddenly notice the self-promotion.