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> "When consumers have tried to sue online marketplaces like Amazon and eBay for selling dangerous goods in the past, courts have ruled they aren’t responsible

> "When consumers have tried to sue online marketplaces like Amazon and eBay for selling dangerous goods in the past, courts have ruled they aren’t responsible for products offered by third-party vendors..." If there's one thing that makes me back away, as a consumer, from Amazon, it's this sort of thing, this lack of real accountability. Sure, Amazon, says they do things to prevent counterfeits from being sold through, but there doesn't appear to be any powerful outside force that consumers can bring to bear on the company when they screw up.

didibus 7y ago
I think the question is the alternatives. Say each of these vendors had their own top level online stores. What then? Maybe you find the site through googling, and decide to buy the item from them. In a way, Amazon is like an extra layer of security to that model. First you can trust the payment channels, you can trust the delivery, and you can trust that you'll get some level of customer support. Beyond that, you know that they've attempted to validate the quality of their products, but in the same way your email provider does spam filtering, so it won't be 100% accurate. And finally they have the review system, which can help learn about that particular vendor or product. It isn't perfect, but it seems better then that alternative. Now as a consumer, you also have the alternative to not buy from vendors you don't already recognize and trust. But then you might go back to having the selection issue. What do you do when your trusted vendors don't have the item? Flr those cases, Amazon still seems better then the alternative.
- mikeash 7y ago
  Amazon is also an extra layer of insecurity. Let’s say I buy a widget sold through Amazon by a trusted manufacturer. Some third party is also selling counterfeits. Amazon considers the two products to be the same, and sends me a counterfeit from the third party. Seems to me that the alternative is simple: mandate that you receive what you ordered, and make the storefront you order from liable for any problems.
  - didibus 7y ago
    I admit that it isn't clear if Amazon can reliably have you choose from what vendor you are buying. That said, not all manufacturer have a storefront. A lot of items can only be purchased through some middleman. And it is hard to validate that a particular vendor is the actual manufacturer and not just pretending to be. So say you wanted that product, and googled for a vendor, and you found xmanifacturer.com. How would you know to trust that? Also, I forgot to mention price. What if you find the item at xvendor.com at a cheaper price, and wanted to buy there? To me, that all just seem even less reliable.
    - michaelmrose 7y ago
      It's actually trivial. If someone pretends to be from foo corp you call foo corps official listed number and inquire. If someone is an individual you ask for an identity document like a drivers license and keep that on file and associate that with all sales. You track who sends you widgets. This is trivial to do with increasingly cheap rfid tags. For reference Walmart individually tags 10pks of cheap socks so it can via a wireless reader count how many Large foobrand packs of socks it has because it can differentiate between pack 5435454545 5435454546. You can even give the user the ability to choose between getting shipments slightly faster by allowing you to fulfill their order via the closest item and send the info about fulfilling vendor along with the order OR get it slightly slower via the chosen vendor. Amazon is technically excellent in a lot of ways its hard to imagine this would actually be hard for them they just don't want to.
      - didibus 7y ago
        Sorry, I meant for the customer. I agree that Amazon could both better validate and indicate to the customers which vendor are the official manufacturer, as well as allow you to opt out of comingling and actually say you want the item to have been from that vendor (even if at an extra cost) But if there were no marketplace such as Etsy, Amazon or Ebay, I think it would be harder for the customer to trust a random website. At least with these marketplaces, you can trust the payment channels, the security of the data you give them, that the support contact will be responsive, that the item will be delivered properly and at all, etc.
starsinspace 7y ago
And IMO it's even worse on Amazon than on eBay. At least on eBay you know that it's not sold by eBay themselves, because that's how the whole website works. And also, eBay prominently shows who the seller is on the listing pages. Amazon's product pages make it so easy to overlook who the actual seller is, and I don't think that's coincidence.
- panda88888 7y ago
  Even the seller information on Amazon may not accurate due to inventory commingling.

didibus 7y ago

I think the question is the alternatives. Say each of these vendors had their own top level online stores. What then? Maybe you find the site through googling, and decide to buy the item from them. In a way, Amazon is like an extra layer of security to that model. First you can trust the payment channels, you can trust the delivery, and you can trust that you'll get some level of customer support. Beyond that, you know that they've attempted to validate the quality of their products, but in the same way your email provider does spam filtering, so it won't be 100% accurate. And finally they have the review system, which can help learn about that particular vendor or product. It isn't perfect, but it seems better then that alternative. Now as a consumer, you also have the alternative to not buy from vendors you don't already recognize and trust. But then you might go back to having the selection issue. What do you do when your trusted vendors don't have the item? Flr those cases, Amazon still seems better then the alternative.

mikeash 7y ago
Amazon is also an extra layer of insecurity. Let’s say I buy a widget sold through Amazon by a trusted manufacturer. Some third party is also selling counterfeits. Amazon considers the two products to be the same, and sends me a counterfeit from the third party. Seems to me that the alternative is simple: mandate that you receive what you ordered, and make the storefront you order from liable for any problems.
- didibus 7y ago
  I admit that it isn't clear if Amazon can reliably have you choose from what vendor you are buying. That said, not all manufacturer have a storefront. A lot of items can only be purchased through some middleman. And it is hard to validate that a particular vendor is the actual manufacturer and not just pretending to be. So say you wanted that product, and googled for a vendor, and you found xmanifacturer.com. How would you know to trust that? Also, I forgot to mention price. What if you find the item at xvendor.com at a cheaper price, and wanted to buy there? To me, that all just seem even less reliable.
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    It's actually trivial. If someone pretends to be from foo corp you call foo corps official listed number and inquire. If someone is an individual you ask for an identity document like a drivers license and keep that on file and associate that with all sales. You track who sends you widgets. This is trivial to do with increasingly cheap rfid tags. For reference Walmart individually tags 10pks of cheap socks so it can via a wireless reader count how many Large foobrand packs of socks it has because it can differentiate between pack 5435454545 5435454546. You can even give the user the ability to choose between getting shipments slightly faster by allowing you to fulfill their order via the closest item and send the info about fulfilling vendor along with the order OR get it slightly slower via the chosen vendor. Amazon is technically excellent in a lot of ways its hard to imagine this would actually be hard for them they just don't want to.
    - didibus 7y ago
      Sorry, I meant for the customer. I agree that Amazon could both better validate and indicate to the customers which vendor are the official manufacturer, as well as allow you to opt out of comingling and actually say you want the item to have been from that vendor (even if at an extra cost) But if there were no marketplace such as Etsy, Amazon or Ebay, I think it would be harder for the customer to trust a random website. At least with these marketplaces, you can trust the payment channels, the security of the data you give them, that the support contact will be responsive, that the item will be delivered properly and at all, etc.

starsinspace 7y ago

And IMO it's even worse on Amazon than on eBay. At least on eBay you know that it's not sold by eBay themselves, because that's how the whole website works. And also, eBay prominently shows who the seller is on the listing pages. Amazon's product pages make it so easy to overlook who the actual seller is, and I don't think that's coincidence.

panda88888 7y ago
Even the seller information on Amazon may not accurate due to inventory commingling.