8 ms·

Friendly remind the parent of parenting?

_nalply 7y ago
It's impossible to force some children to be quiet. If I were the parent of my mildly autistic son I would answer that he is autistic and mute and that it's useless.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Most people would understand this rare exception, but it is very rare. I've seen (and felt) lots of seats being kicked, and never once was the guilty child autistic.
  - _nalply 7y ago
    It's not a rare exception, it is only one of the possible motives of kicking seats. Suck it up or try to find an agreement with the person behind you. Talk directly with the child.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      I'd love to live in a world in which strangers on an airplane would welcome my chastisement of their unruly children. I don't live in that world, however. Your family situation certainly inspires my sympathy, but do you really want people to assume that all misbehaving children are probably autistic? That's not a good stereotype to foster.
      - ycombobreaker 7y ago
        You really can speak with children who aren't yours. Some parents will probably be upset or offended no matter how you approach, well tough luck for them. I think most parents will be shamed as an initial response but the key is your delivery. Don't be a jerk of adult. The child likely does not understand the consequences of kicking on a seat. Explain to the child that you can feel it and that it bothers or hurts you, it may make more impact than routing feedback through the parents. It may not work. It may take some reiteration. The parents may politely explain a learning disability in which you just engage with them. The parents may give you a stinkeye. Oh well, kids need to learn how to interact with the rest of their world, and the parents who you seem to be most worried about are probably the ones whose kids need it the most. Usually I find that parents are reasonable and appreciate other adults treating their children like small, learning humans rather than tiny monsters.
        magduf 7y ago
        >Usually I find that parents are reasonable and appreciate other adults treating their children like small, learning humans rather than tiny monsters. Maybe they should stop allowing their children to behave like tiny monsters. This just isn't a problem in many other cultures; you don't see children in Japan act like that. This is mostly an American phenomenon because people forgot how to be good parents in this society.
        sidlls 7y ago
        Children from countries other than America exhibit poor behavior. That's what children do, because they lack the structures and connections in their brains that adults have that provide us the ability to comport ourselves the way we do.
        magduf 7y ago
        They aren't as bad as American children, because in other cultures they're taught from an early age how to behave appropriately around other people. In America, parents think their kids are special snowflakes and should never be disciplined, so bad behavior is rampant. The culture in America really is different from other places, as much as you might refuse to believe this. As for "structures and connections", that's a ridiculous excuse. Sure, when children are infants you can make that excuse because they're really too young to learn almost anything. We're talking about kids that are 5-10 years old here. Differing upbringing doesn't somehow magically take effect only at age 18.
        jessaustin 7y ago
        I don't care about the proper socialization of some random kid on a plane. That is not my job. That is a parent's job. As others have indicated, parents probably have a better understanding of the kid's special problems than I do. The point is not that we're going to solve this problem, of kids being unruly and parents saving their efforts for other priorities. If I didn't pay for first class, I can tolerate a couple hours of annoyance. The point was a far smaller one, that writing off poor public behavior as "well, autism is increasingly common now" is a pathetic cop-out, which does no favors for those who are actually autistic.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - stevekemp 7y ago
    You can diagnose autism, that quickly? Wow.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
sidlls 7y ago
Certain ages and conditions of children make that irrelevant. Try getting a three year old to stop anything--you'll trade being a punching bag for deafness from shrieks and whining--or an autistic child to even be aware that he is doing it. It's rare that one knows more about how to handle children than their caregivers, and "reminders" from strangers are often wrong, besides being insulting.
- stevekemp 7y ago
  2-3 year olds probably don't have the arm-length to really reach too far forward. Older than that I'd hope they could be restrained - although not physically!
braythwayt 7y ago
I don't agree with that. When I purchase an airline ticket, my arrangement is with the airline, not with their other passengers. They owe me nothing. It is not a public space. I can no more shush their children (or such-by-proxy) than I can call up another customer of my internet provider and ask them to use less bandwidth so that I get more. I can ask the flight attendant to speak to the parents about the kid kicking the seat, but if the flight attendant declines to fix my problem, my ire is best directed at the airline declining to provide me with a comfortable environment. They could institute a no-children rule, or a "your children must behave or you will be banned from flying our airline" rule, just as Hacker News chooses what kind of behaviour to moderate and what to allow. But the airlines openly tolerate this behaviour for their own reasons, and I choose to do business with them. I strongly suspect that although they are tactful about it, what they would like to say if I complain is, "If you will just give me your credit card, Sir, I will upgrade your ticket to first class. Come this way, I will pour you a flute of champagne." We celebrate naked capitalism at the expense of customers here. It turns out, airlines do as well.
- rsfern 7y ago
  I don’t think US carriers can legally institute a no-children rule — i think this sort of policy would constitute age discrimination [0]. Not sure about other localities. Removing particularly disruptive/belligerent passengers seems to be fair game, but really that’s exceptional and doesn’t apply to most of the interactions being discussed here. I don’t think anyone in this thread is saying that travelers should be entitled to shush other people’s children, which would be incredibly rude. You’re perfectly entitled to go through the intermediary of the airline, but I think polite engagement along the lines of what GP suggested would be a positive feature of society. [0]: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/regulatory/statutes/age-discrimination-act https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/regulatory/statutes/age-d...
  - braythwayt 7y ago
    They may not be able to, I certainly don't actually want them to. I'm fine with kids when I travel economy, and I'm fine with fewer distractions when I travel comfort economy.

It's impossible to force some children to be quiet. If I were the parent of my mildly autistic son I would answer that he is autistic and mute and that it's useless.

jessaustin 7y ago
Most people would understand this rare exception, but it is very rare. I've seen (and felt) lots of seats being kicked, and never once was the guilty child autistic.
- _nalply 7y ago
  It's not a rare exception, it is only one of the possible motives of kicking seats. Suck it up or try to find an agreement with the person behind you. Talk directly with the child.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    I'd love to live in a world in which strangers on an airplane would welcome my chastisement of their unruly children. I don't live in that world, however. Your family situation certainly inspires my sympathy, but do you really want people to assume that all misbehaving children are probably autistic? That's not a good stereotype to foster.
    - ycombobreaker 7y ago
      You really can speak with children who aren't yours. Some parents will probably be upset or offended no matter how you approach, well tough luck for them. I think most parents will be shamed as an initial response but the key is your delivery. Don't be a jerk of adult. The child likely does not understand the consequences of kicking on a seat. Explain to the child that you can feel it and that it bothers or hurts you, it may make more impact than routing feedback through the parents. It may not work. It may take some reiteration. The parents may politely explain a learning disability in which you just engage with them. The parents may give you a stinkeye. Oh well, kids need to learn how to interact with the rest of their world, and the parents who you seem to be most worried about are probably the ones whose kids need it the most. Usually I find that parents are reasonable and appreciate other adults treating their children like small, learning humans rather than tiny monsters.
      - magduf 7y ago
        >Usually I find that parents are reasonable and appreciate other adults treating their children like small, learning humans rather than tiny monsters. Maybe they should stop allowing their children to behave like tiny monsters. This just isn't a problem in many other cultures; you don't see children in Japan act like that. This is mostly an American phenomenon because people forgot how to be good parents in this society.
        sidlls 7y ago
        Children from countries other than America exhibit poor behavior. That's what children do, because they lack the structures and connections in their brains that adults have that provide us the ability to comport ourselves the way we do.
        magduf 7y ago
        They aren't as bad as American children, because in other cultures they're taught from an early age how to behave appropriately around other people. In America, parents think their kids are special snowflakes and should never be disciplined, so bad behavior is rampant. The culture in America really is different from other places, as much as you might refuse to believe this. As for "structures and connections", that's a ridiculous excuse. Sure, when children are infants you can make that excuse because they're really too young to learn almost anything. We're talking about kids that are 5-10 years old here. Differing upbringing doesn't somehow magically take effect only at age 18.
      - jessaustin 7y ago
        I don't care about the proper socialization of some random kid on a plane. That is not my job. That is a parent's job. As others have indicated, parents probably have a better understanding of the kid's special problems than I do. The point is not that we're going to solve this problem, of kids being unruly and parents saving their efforts for other priorities. If I didn't pay for first class, I can tolerate a couple hours of annoyance. The point was a far smaller one, that writing off poor public behavior as "well, autism is increasingly common now" is a pathetic cop-out, which does no favors for those who are actually autistic.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- stevekemp 7y ago
  You can diagnose autism, that quickly? Wow.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

sidlls 7y ago

Certain ages and conditions of children make that irrelevant. Try getting a three year old to stop anything--you'll trade being a punching bag for deafness from shrieks and whining--or an autistic child to even be aware that he is doing it. It's rare that one knows more about how to handle children than their caregivers, and "reminders" from strangers are often wrong, besides being insulting.

stevekemp 7y ago
2-3 year olds probably don't have the arm-length to really reach too far forward. Older than that I'd hope they could be restrained - although not physically!

braythwayt 7y ago

I don't agree with that. When I purchase an airline ticket, my arrangement is with the airline, not with their other passengers. They owe me nothing. It is not a public space. I can no more shush their children (or such-by-proxy) than I can call up another customer of my internet provider and ask them to use less bandwidth so that I get more. I can ask the flight attendant to speak to the parents about the kid kicking the seat, but if the flight attendant declines to fix my problem, my ire is best directed at the airline declining to provide me with a comfortable environment. They could institute a no-children rule, or a "your children must behave or you will be banned from flying our airline" rule, just as Hacker News chooses what kind of behaviour to moderate and what to allow. But the airlines openly tolerate this behaviour for their own reasons, and I choose to do business with them. I strongly suspect that although they are tactful about it, what they would like to say if I complain is, "If you will just give me your credit card, Sir, I will upgrade your ticket to first class. Come this way, I will pour you a flute of champagne." We celebrate naked capitalism at the expense of customers here. It turns out, airlines do as well.

rsfern 7y ago
I don’t think US carriers can legally institute a no-children rule — i think this sort of policy would constitute age discrimination [0]. Not sure about other localities. Removing particularly disruptive/belligerent passengers seems to be fair game, but really that’s exceptional and doesn’t apply to most of the interactions being discussed here. I don’t think anyone in this thread is saying that travelers should be entitled to shush other people’s children, which would be incredibly rude. You’re perfectly entitled to go through the intermediary of the airline, but I think polite engagement along the lines of what GP suggested would be a positive feature of society. [0]: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/regulatory/statutes/age-discrimination-act https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/regulatory/statutes/age-d...
- braythwayt 7y ago
  They may not be able to, I certainly don't actually want them to. I'm fine with kids when I travel economy, and I'm fine with fewer distractions when I travel comfort economy.