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None of those are really the same- the closest thing I'm aware of in US history is the Pinkertons- except they were presumably professionals- in HK we're seeing

inferiorhuman 7y ago
None of those are really the same- the closest thing I'm aware of in US history is the Pinkertons- except they were presumably professionals- in HK we're seeing illegal gangs being hired to terrorize the populace What is happening in Hong Kong is, presumably, the government using outside groups as a proxy for violence. I've outlined a number of instances of the American government using disproportionate violence and using outside groups to perpetrate disproportionate violence. The one thing I forgot were the allegations that the FBI used Gregory Scarpa (a mob hitman) to extract information might seem closer for you. If you look to the south, there are plenty of instances of the American government funding South American rebel groups (while not the mob, they were not professionals, and did perpetrate plenty of heinous crimes). I mentioned the Contras in the context of the CIA funding drug trafficking into the US (if you don't believe that resulted in an explosion of violence go check out the homicide stats for LA County in the 1990s), but the Contras were extraordinarily violent in their home of Nicaragua. Of course nothing is ever exactly the same. I don't think that making a difference between professional and hobbyist thug is one worth making here. Beyond that I don't think that legal vs illegal is a worth making either. Do you think the PRC is going to sanction the triads (therefor declaring their behavior illegal)? I don't.
- awakeasleep 7y ago
  The point I was referring to was that this is a domestic incident of proxy violence. The Scarpa and Crack episodes were closer to that, but it still doesn't seem like the Pinkertons were the closest we came to this in the USA

inferiorhuman 7y ago

None of those are really the same- the closest thing I'm aware of in US history is the Pinkertons- except they were presumably professionals- in HK we're seeing illegal gangs being hired to terrorize the populace What is happening in Hong Kong is, presumably, the government using outside groups as a proxy for violence. I've outlined a number of instances of the American government using disproportionate violence and using outside groups to perpetrate disproportionate violence. The one thing I forgot were the allegations that the FBI used Gregory Scarpa (a mob hitman) to extract information might seem closer for you. If you look to the south, there are plenty of instances of the American government funding South American rebel groups (while not the mob, they were not professionals, and did perpetrate plenty of heinous crimes). I mentioned the Contras in the context of the CIA funding drug trafficking into the US (if you don't believe that resulted in an explosion of violence go check out the homicide stats for LA County in the 1990s), but the Contras were extraordinarily violent in their home of Nicaragua. Of course nothing is ever exactly the same. I don't think that making a difference between professional and hobbyist thug is one worth making here. Beyond that I don't think that legal vs illegal is a worth making either. Do you think the PRC is going to sanction the triads (therefor declaring their behavior illegal)? I don't.

awakeasleep 7y ago
The point I was referring to was that this is a domestic incident of proxy violence. The Scarpa and Crack episodes were closer to that, but it still doesn't seem like the Pinkertons were the closest we came to this in the USA