5 ms·

There appears to be an active group working to create these stories in order to create a 'whistleblower hell'. Elon occasionally does not help this, but author

There appears to be an active group working to create these stories in order to create a 'whistleblower hell'. Elon occasionally does not help this, but authorities should look into the allegations that a group is actively manipulating Tesla employees for these types of stories. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/21/were-cnbc-sources-tesla-employees-funded-by-tslaq/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/21/were-cnbc-sources-tesla...

unityByFreedom 7y ago
That's not an objective source. Clean Technica is to Elon Musk as Fox News is to Donald Trump
kreetx 7y ago
Elon gets a lot of hate unfortunately due to his position in the industry, and also I guess the age we're in. See this tweet from Paul Graham for example https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1122987659079618563 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1122987659079618563 People notice the hate, and although there most probably are issues in the factories, then the reporting of them is way bent to the negative.
- unityByFreedom 7y ago
  Elon gets himself into it. He wants to be the center of attention (Thailand, pedo, 420). Creating a profitable business comes second to his need to be seen as a tech luminary.
  - kreetx 7y ago
    I seriously doubt this. Writing a tweet doesn't take much time, and it is probably fun to him to irritate the opposing forces. For profits, I think it's pretty obvious that both Tesla and SpaceX will start making a profit quite soon, and will probably make a lot of it in the long term. (Maybe they are making a profit even now? Sorry, don't know, I'm just a random developer...)
    - unityByFreedom 7y ago
      > (Maybe they are making a profit even now? Sorry, don't know, I'm just a random developer...) SpaceX is private, so its books are closed and there is no publicly reviewable valuation. Tesla is public and has had < 5 profitable quarters in its existence. None of Elon's existing companies have been able to turn a profit. Paypal does not count as "his" since he joined there on an acquisition and he was only CEO there for a few months before getting the boot.
      - kreetx 7y ago
        You can't be serious? It's not like Tesla is a bakery where on the 6th month the bread sales pay off the one-time asset purchases (e.g oven and other equipment) and then it's all profit down the line. It takes time, especially on the scale Elon appears to be doing it.
        xiphias2 7y ago
        It doesn’t take time to get profitable, all it would take is to stop putting billions of dollars into building new factories. The problem is that stopping growth would never bring humanity closer to sustainable transport (nor would it make sensible investors happy)
        windexh8er 7y ago
        > It doesn’t take time to get profitable, all it would take is to stop putting billions of dollars into building new factories. Are you serious? I can throw a rock at any newly minted tech IPO in the last year and almost guarantee that it's not even remotely close to being in the black without even hearing the name.
        unityByFreedom 7y ago
        Tesla isn't a newly minted tech IPO. They're just riding the wave of an economy with good lending rates.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  Actually the criticism that Musk gets is a result of things like: - Calling someone's boss and threatening a lawsuit to make him take down critical writings on Twitter and Seeking Alpha (https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/07/27/1532692760000/Je-suis-Montana-Skeptic/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/07/27/1532692760000/Je-suis...) - Threatening to "nuke" a departing employee who had returned to Tesla HQ to collect some personal belongings (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/tesla-board-probed-allegation-that-elon-musk-pushed-employee https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/tesla-boa...) - Trumpian attacks on the press, including by riling up his fans on Twitter (https://twitter.com/lopezlinette/status/1014983757252780033 https://twitter.com/lopezlinette/status/1014983757252780033) - Lying with statistics, e.g. "traffic incidents are xx% less likely with Autopilot engaged" or "Tesla cars are xx% safer than the overall U.S. fleet" without mentioning the huge selection bias at play - Running factories with tons of environmental, health, labor, and QA-related problems, then attempting to just gaslight his way through the criticism (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/15/tesla-workers-in-ga4-tent-describe-pressure-to-make-model-3-goals.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/15/tesla-workers-in-ga4-tent-de...) - Brazenly lying about his company on Twitter in an attempt to manipulate the stock price (https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2018/comp-pr2018-219.pdf https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2018/comp-pr2018-2...)
  - xiphias2 7y ago
    This is all true. But how does it compare to companies building machines that are emitting toxic gas to billions of people and destroying the Earth’s climate? There’s a good reason why mainstream media doesn’t talk about it as seriously as it should be doing.
    - Fins 7y ago
      There's also that story about oil companies sitting on the secret of perpetual motion... Also, those companies happen to build products that are needed and can actually be afforded by people who need them to, you know, make a living, unlike Elon's shiny toys. This conspiratorial mindset on part of Tesla's fans is far more detrimental than any mythical shorts' conspiracy or anything.
- timavr 7y ago
  Did Paul Graham write an algorithm which crawls twitter and counts all this robo haters? The bigger reason is that Tesla really put themselves out there and now negative stories getting a lot of views.
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  I don't know what you're talking about, Elon Musk gets flack for being a jerk, and all the questionable stuff he's done. This narrative that big business is out to get him (eg. that tweet) needs to die.
  - kreetx 7y ago
    I'm not speciffically referring to the "industry out to get him" narrative. Perhaps there is a reason for the industry not to like him since he's competition, but I dont believe there is any organized campaign. What I was referring to was that he has made a name in the general public and is not politically correct nor "tamed". Obviously he's going to get plenty of negative attention.
    - P_I_Staker 7y ago
      He's also a prick. The whole I'm not tame or PC, is a lame and tired excuse. FWIW The linked tweet did make that claim, so hopefully I made that clear.
      - kreetx 7y ago
        The way you argument doesn't really honor you.
        P_I_Staker 7y ago
        I don't agree. I think you're making terrible excuses for bad behavior, that shouldn't be accepted under any circumstances. Ironically, you resort to personal attacks instead of making an argument based on merits. It's perfectly fair to point out that the "I'm not PC or tame" line is frequently used by people that are just jerks to justify jerk behavior. I don't think calling him a prick is unwarrented given the behavior.
        kreetx 7y ago
        I think in your head you are arguing with somebody else. E.g what excuses have I made? I personally don't even know which parts of his behavior you are referring to. It's you here saying "jerk" and "prick" - behavior I think shouldn't be ignored. Although I don't have the full list of what Elon has done wrong then I'm pretty sure that there is plenty of way more ugly stuff going on which we don't even know about, but by people who don't bring any value to the world. And you are just randomly angry because the current guy at hand is public with his mistakes, you can see them, and then you go and argue about it on the internet.
- eaton 7y ago
  That is the tweet of a man who slept through 2014.

unityByFreedom 7y ago

That's not an objective source. Clean Technica is to Elon Musk as Fox News is to Donald Trump

kreetx 7y ago

Elon gets a lot of hate unfortunately due to his position in the industry, and also I guess the age we're in. See this tweet from Paul Graham for example https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1122987659079618563 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1122987659079618563 People notice the hate, and although there most probably are issues in the factories, then the reporting of them is way bent to the negative.

unityByFreedom 7y ago
Elon gets himself into it. He wants to be the center of attention (Thailand, pedo, 420). Creating a profitable business comes second to his need to be seen as a tech luminary.
- kreetx 7y ago
  I seriously doubt this. Writing a tweet doesn't take much time, and it is probably fun to him to irritate the opposing forces. For profits, I think it's pretty obvious that both Tesla and SpaceX will start making a profit quite soon, and will probably make a lot of it in the long term. (Maybe they are making a profit even now? Sorry, don't know, I'm just a random developer...)
  - unityByFreedom 7y ago
    > (Maybe they are making a profit even now? Sorry, don't know, I'm just a random developer...) SpaceX is private, so its books are closed and there is no publicly reviewable valuation. Tesla is public and has had < 5 profitable quarters in its existence. None of Elon's existing companies have been able to turn a profit. Paypal does not count as "his" since he joined there on an acquisition and he was only CEO there for a few months before getting the boot.
    - kreetx 7y ago
      You can't be serious? It's not like Tesla is a bakery where on the 6th month the bread sales pay off the one-time asset purchases (e.g oven and other equipment) and then it's all profit down the line. It takes time, especially on the scale Elon appears to be doing it.
      - xiphias2 7y ago
        It doesn’t take time to get profitable, all it would take is to stop putting billions of dollars into building new factories. The problem is that stopping growth would never bring humanity closer to sustainable transport (nor would it make sensible investors happy)
        windexh8er 7y ago
        > It doesn’t take time to get profitable, all it would take is to stop putting billions of dollars into building new factories. Are you serious? I can throw a rock at any newly minted tech IPO in the last year and almost guarantee that it's not even remotely close to being in the black without even hearing the name.
        unityByFreedom 7y ago
        Tesla isn't a newly minted tech IPO. They're just riding the wave of an economy with good lending rates.
AndrewBissell 7y ago
Actually the criticism that Musk gets is a result of things like: - Calling someone's boss and threatening a lawsuit to make him take down critical writings on Twitter and Seeking Alpha (https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/07/27/1532692760000/Je-suis-Montana-Skeptic/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/07/27/1532692760000/Je-suis...) - Threatening to "nuke" a departing employee who had returned to Tesla HQ to collect some personal belongings (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/tesla-board-probed-allegation-that-elon-musk-pushed-employee https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/tesla-boa...) - Trumpian attacks on the press, including by riling up his fans on Twitter (https://twitter.com/lopezlinette/status/1014983757252780033 https://twitter.com/lopezlinette/status/1014983757252780033) - Lying with statistics, e.g. "traffic incidents are xx% less likely with Autopilot engaged" or "Tesla cars are xx% safer than the overall U.S. fleet" without mentioning the huge selection bias at play - Running factories with tons of environmental, health, labor, and QA-related problems, then attempting to just gaslight his way through the criticism (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/15/tesla-workers-in-ga4-tent-describe-pressure-to-make-model-3-goals.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/15/tesla-workers-in-ga4-tent-de...) - Brazenly lying about his company on Twitter in an attempt to manipulate the stock price (https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2018/comp-pr2018-219.pdf https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2018/comp-pr2018-2...)
- xiphias2 7y ago
  This is all true. But how does it compare to companies building machines that are emitting toxic gas to billions of people and destroying the Earth’s climate? There’s a good reason why mainstream media doesn’t talk about it as seriously as it should be doing.
  - Fins 7y ago
    There's also that story about oil companies sitting on the secret of perpetual motion... Also, those companies happen to build products that are needed and can actually be afforded by people who need them to, you know, make a living, unlike Elon's shiny toys. This conspiratorial mindset on part of Tesla's fans is far more detrimental than any mythical shorts' conspiracy or anything.
timavr 7y ago
Did Paul Graham write an algorithm which crawls twitter and counts all this robo haters? The bigger reason is that Tesla really put themselves out there and now negative stories getting a lot of views.
P_I_Staker 7y ago
I don't know what you're talking about, Elon Musk gets flack for being a jerk, and all the questionable stuff he's done. This narrative that big business is out to get him (eg. that tweet) needs to die.
- kreetx 7y ago
  I'm not speciffically referring to the "industry out to get him" narrative. Perhaps there is a reason for the industry not to like him since he's competition, but I dont believe there is any organized campaign. What I was referring to was that he has made a name in the general public and is not politically correct nor "tamed". Obviously he's going to get plenty of negative attention.
  - P_I_Staker 7y ago
    He's also a prick. The whole I'm not tame or PC, is a lame and tired excuse. FWIW The linked tweet did make that claim, so hopefully I made that clear.
    - kreetx 7y ago
      The way you argument doesn't really honor you.
      - P_I_Staker 7y ago
        I don't agree. I think you're making terrible excuses for bad behavior, that shouldn't be accepted under any circumstances. Ironically, you resort to personal attacks instead of making an argument based on merits. It's perfectly fair to point out that the "I'm not PC or tame" line is frequently used by people that are just jerks to justify jerk behavior. I don't think calling him a prick is unwarrented given the behavior.
        kreetx 7y ago
        I think in your head you are arguing with somebody else. E.g what excuses have I made? I personally don't even know which parts of his behavior you are referring to. It's you here saying "jerk" and "prick" - behavior I think shouldn't be ignored. Although I don't have the full list of what Elon has done wrong then I'm pretty sure that there is plenty of way more ugly stuff going on which we don't even know about, but by people who don't bring any value to the world. And you are just randomly angry because the current guy at hand is public with his mistakes, you can see them, and then you go and argue about it on the internet.
eaton 7y ago
That is the tweet of a man who slept through 2014.